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hey y'all Ryan Sprague here as you all

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know this summer in the skies podcast is

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always free to consume but it isn't free

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to create that's why I've started this

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somewhere in the skies patreon campaign

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you on a monthly basis you give what you

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think the show is worth you'll be

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helping the show continue grow and to be

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something truly communal and remember

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there are rewards for each level of

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contribution and the list is only

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growing so please help somewhere in the

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skies now by becoming a patron to

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www.personalfitnesstrainerstlouis.com

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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welcome to somewhere in the skies I'm

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your host Ryan spread before we go any

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further I am coming to you from the

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empty cavernous apartment in what is

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going to be the last episode of

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somewhere in the skies recorded in Los

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Angeles California I have made this city

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my home for the past year now but now

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it's time to head back east to a place

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that both centers me and spins me

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completely off my axis and that it's in

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New York City Los Angeles has afforded

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me opportunities I never expected and I

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met some of the nicest most interesting

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people I've ever come across in my

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travels I saw some of the most beautiful

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things I've ever seen

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and some of the ugliest it's a spectrum

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of wealth and prosperity and a place of

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poverty and struggling so I leave here

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hoping for a better tomorrow for the

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City of Angels and I thank you for all

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you expose me to and let me blimps of

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what you had to offer and with this

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being the last show reported on the west

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coast I can think of no better guest

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than June and hopes of the acclaimed

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podcast you put that you ferment the

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critically acclaimed audio documentary

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podcast series featuring truth

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paranormal radio Diaries has recently

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added a new complementary show to speed

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with the launch of youth event

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obscure the new weekly series will

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feature poignant unreleased documentary

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tape from you ferment season 1 as well

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as host Jim Perry's travelogue detailing

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unheard stories of paranormal

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experiences encountered while in the

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field producing the show today we talk

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about some of those experiences and what

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to expect from you ferment obscura

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but we also get much much deeper than

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I'd anticipated and once again Jim Perry

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leaves me both speechless in many ways

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and ready to

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into the unknown like I never had before

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this interview shook me literally shook

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me to the core it's deeply personal and

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unlike any episodes of summer in the

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skies that you've heard before so I hope

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you enjoy my talk with Jim Perry thank

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you to all of you for sticking with me

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and the show out here in Los Angeles and

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I'll see you on the other side that

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first episode just knocked my socks off

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I was glad you liked it oh is that

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Starbucks it of like this is so good oh

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thank you thank you I'm glad you liked

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it I haven't checked in with what people

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are saying or like any response yet so

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you're actually you're probably the

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first response I've ever had on that

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episode so yes yeah it's it's a little

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different now of course detail that a

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little bit yeah on the episode but it's

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very interesting and I listened to our

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last conversation together last night

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and Wow I was stunned to hear how how

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clearly I could envision myself in that

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place where we were speaking where I was

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at my life where it was at with this

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project and I was visibly rattled in a

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way that I could that I could tell I'm

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sure others couldn't

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I felt into it last night and it gave me

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anxiety a little bit I was like oh my

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god I I don't know what the future holds

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at this point when I'm putting over this

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project I'm talking to Ryan excitedly

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about it I can't hold together sort of

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my stream of thought and consciousness

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is all over the place and so it's very

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interesting looking back at it

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especially now with launching this new

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project looking back at that at that

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moment and I thank you for that because

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you gave me the opportunity to talk

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about that project before anyone else as

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well so again here we are the first of

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this new project and you're giving me

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the opportunity to talk about this

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before anyone else as well so that's

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extremely refreshing to hear and you

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know if you don't mind man I'd love to

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with that in mind as sort of the impetus

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for this I'd love to just dive in is

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that cool absolutely awesome awesome so

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I have here

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with me today Jim Perry the host of

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Youth Ahmet and a new endeavor you

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foment obscura and the reason I wanted

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to have you on today man is because I

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was making my way through my weekly

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podcast episodes this week and I noticed

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a new episode pop up on the you from

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that feed and it wasn't exactly you

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ferment and I I literally was like what

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wait what's happening what's going on

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here it is something completely

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different and I was a little confused at

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first but I was extremely excited to see

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this new thing obscura so before we even

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get into what you're gonna be covering

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and everything could you maybe tell us a

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little bit about this new project how it

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came about and what we can expect from

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you from at obscura yeah you foam at

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obscura is really an opportunity to take

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a look back at the stories of UFO met

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season one and dig deeper into the

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history the mythos the lore behind these

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stories and so we're going back to

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places like West Virginia and talking

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about the monsters in detailing even

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historic tales and first-hand accounts

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of individuals as far back as the mid

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century that have experienced this

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behavior because it's interesting I was

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thinking about it this morning and I

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came to this realization that I believe

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and I think I'm not alone here that the

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stories of this other generation that

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lived through the UFO flaps that have

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lived through paranormal supernatural a

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cold experiences throughout history

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those stories are just as important as

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the stories we're living today and so

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obscure is really an opportunity to put

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on a little bit of a different narrative

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hat and use the stories of you've met

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season one and beyond to go and dig into

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the history of these people and places

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and experiences digging deeper which is

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what I really appreciated about the

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first episode of obscura that I listened

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to recently and that was sort of I love

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this idea of like kind of a companion to

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the main episodes where you get to know

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the people more that you talk to you get

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to know the store

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more and like you said one of those was

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West Virginia your travels with Greg and

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Dana Newkirk no for anyone who hasn't

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heard of the original you from that

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episode with them go listen to it right

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now stop this episode go listen to it it

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made me cry man like literally brought

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me to tears oh wow thank you thank you

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just to hear how Greg and Dana met in

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their entire story of finding one

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another and having these commonalities

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in terms of curiosity and you know that

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this Val that had been broken for them

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of what's real what's not and how they

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took that journey together was just it

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was so touching and it's rich and and to

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know that that wasn't it that we were

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gonna get more from them with this

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obscure episode we can go deeper and

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everything strange that has happened in

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West Virginia give us a little bit about

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this first episode of obscura you know

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you're covering everything from the

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Silver Bridge to Mothman and and beyond

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so maybe would you mind touching on that

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for us firstly I just wanted to paint a

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picture for you yeah in regards to Greg

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and Dana who I have the utmost respect

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for who I think I've developed maybe a

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lifelong relationship with at this point

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in terms of our ability to create work

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together is something special and we're

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finding these people within our

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community you included that we keep

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circling around each other and we keep

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essentially proliferating this next

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generation of the esoteric influencers

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and thought leaders in the world not to

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say that I am that but hopefully I am

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helping propagate those stories and

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narratives out there right so imagine

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being in the wilderness of West Virginia

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you're at the TNT area this stark

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stretch of land that goes and dives

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deeply into swamp --is-- area it's dark

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there's these concrete munition domes

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surrounding you there's no one else in

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sight the only form of human interaction

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or having that point is is nearby

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gunfire from

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um you know as John keel would say

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trigger-happy heroes are out there right

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shooting off their guns that we hear in

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your episode I'm sorry

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yeah and that was all real that was all

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happening to us at that time can I get

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him I'm sorry I have to add the audio

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quality of your show like putting us in

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there with everything that's going on in

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the background and you can hear your

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your feet crunching on the ground below

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like it just it puts you into the world

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that you're living in in that moment and

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I have to commend you on that before we

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go any further it just it's audio

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documentary and like investigative

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journalism in a way I've never seen or

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heard before in podcast form so first of

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all thank you for that

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thank you of course my friend and

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obviously selfishly those are the parts

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of the show that I really geeked out on

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it's the little details the little

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cinema-quality soundscapes that I seek

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to produce for the show that really kind

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of excites me and gets me going after a

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long hard edit session where I've been

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putting together narrative pieces for

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hours and hours and hours and hours and

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putting together a full complete episode

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it's a sort of the tale into that where

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I can start placing music and placing

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the soundscapes and placing that

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documentary footage I want to to really

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highlight the narrative and and create

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those connective tissues and also

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highlight just the emotions of what's

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going on in that scene right so it's

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kind of like my treat you know it's kind

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of like I get I get it like sort of sit

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back and relish in that you know what if

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it's places like this where kids have

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come and got so much pent-up energy and

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aggression and you know sexual tension

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into a place that they've just ripped

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that whole open

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strange shape of these buildings and you

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know maybe it has something to do with

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location only where it is just is the

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perfect spot for something like that to

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kind of manifest magnifies it maybe

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everything you say in here last longer

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look it has a vibration that carries it

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like further almost then when we're

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standing outside and everything sounds

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flat and like once you've said it it's

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00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:23,720
done everything in here it's like a long

275
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,490
interesting about that

276
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:33,360
so is everything that happens in Point

277
00:12:40,460 --> 00:12:37,890
Pleasant it just vibrates out there

278
00:12:44,770 --> 00:12:40,470
decades even grows

279
00:12:48,890 --> 00:12:44,780
I mean Mothman was only here for a year

280
00:12:50,630 --> 00:12:48,900
but has he ever really left it's also

281
00:12:52,790 --> 00:12:50,640
opportunities to be out in the field

282
00:12:56,150 --> 00:12:52,800
that gives me an opportunity an excuse

283
00:12:59,480 --> 00:12:56,160
to put an emphasis on being in these

284
00:13:03,490 --> 00:12:59,490
places with the people involving these

285
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:03,500
experiences and retelling these historic

286
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:05,610
paranormal stories that we've all heard

287
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:07,170
a million times what does that place

288
00:13:11,330 --> 00:13:08,880
sound like when you're in the TNT area

289
00:13:12,740 --> 00:13:11,340
and you're crunching around and you're

290
00:13:14,990 --> 00:13:12,750
going to the domes and you're going to

291
00:13:18,290 --> 00:13:15,000
the birthplace of where the Mothman was

292
00:13:20,270 --> 00:13:18,300
first sighted the historic Mothman what

293
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:20,280
does that gravel sound like what do

294
00:13:24,500 --> 00:13:22,530
those domes feel and sound like and so

295
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:24,510
that's really what I'm really hoping is

296
00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:26,250
conveying to the audience and those are

297
00:13:31,550 --> 00:13:28,650
the things that are really of interest

298
00:13:34,550 --> 00:13:31,560
to me now you might remember you from at

299
00:13:36,620 --> 00:13:34,560
the main series it really is about the

300
00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:36,630
unknown and our relationship to it with

301
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:39,090
the emphasis being our relationship to

302
00:13:44,690 --> 00:13:41,330
the unknown and so these are

303
00:13:46,940 --> 00:13:44,700
transformative human stories it's how

304
00:13:49,340 --> 00:13:46,950
does the paranormal the supernatural the

305
00:13:51,470 --> 00:13:49,350
unexplained affect personal lives and

306
00:13:53,090 --> 00:13:51,480
transform us as human beings and so it's

307
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:53,100
connecting the pieces on what these

308
00:13:57,860 --> 00:13:54,810
human stories are really saying about us

309
00:13:59,510 --> 00:13:57,870
so when I was originally down there and

310
00:14:02,720 --> 00:13:59,520
we were working on this episode

311
00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:02,730
me and the Newkirk's the idea was that

312
00:14:08,870 --> 00:14:05,880
we are telling a love story around the

313
00:14:11,540 --> 00:14:08,880
mythos of Mothman and the strangeness

314
00:14:14,060 --> 00:14:11,550
that occurs the synchronicity occurs the

315
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:14,070
monsters that appear in collaboration

316
00:14:20,060 --> 00:14:17,250
with this Point Pleasant and greater

317
00:14:22,730 --> 00:14:20,070
West Virginia so the three of us are

318
00:14:27,730 --> 00:14:22,740
standing there in the TNT TNT area and

319
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:31,400
Graig proclaiming his love for Dana Dana

320
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:34,560
proclaiming the love for Greg me just

321
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:35,610
standing there just trying to keep it

322
00:14:40,579 --> 00:14:37,530
together so I don't ruin the integrity

323
00:14:43,070 --> 00:14:40,589
of the record a media and here we are in

324
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:43,080
one of the most monstrous places in the

325
00:14:49,130 --> 00:14:44,800
United States with

326
00:14:52,019 --> 00:14:49,140
the most hauntingly mysterious beast

327
00:14:54,269 --> 00:14:52,029
that anyone can ever think of in terms

328
00:14:56,699 --> 00:14:54,279
of american monster lore and we're all

329
00:14:58,410 --> 00:14:56,709
just sharing these emotions the other in

330
00:15:00,630 --> 00:14:58,420
this in this super hardened space and so

331
00:15:02,180 --> 00:15:00,640
that those are those are the type of

332
00:15:05,130 --> 00:15:02,190
experiences those are the type of

333
00:15:07,350 --> 00:15:05,140
interesting phenomenon and so right I

334
00:15:09,060 --> 00:15:07,360
think that I want to help kind of

335
00:15:11,220 --> 00:15:09,070
display to the you from that audience

336
00:15:13,710 --> 00:15:11,230
and obscure is is definitely an

337
00:15:16,079 --> 00:15:13,720
opportunity for that and I thought there

338
00:15:18,750 --> 00:15:16,089
was no better place to start than West

339
00:15:21,660 --> 00:15:18,760
Virginia West Virginia was a place where

340
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:21,670
at the start of producing UFO met I

341
00:15:27,180 --> 00:15:24,010
never thought I'd be there as much as I

342
00:15:30,630 --> 00:15:27,190
was I was there for weeks and I had no

343
00:15:33,060 --> 00:15:30,640
idea that a those opportunities would be

344
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:33,070
presented to me and be that I would

345
00:15:37,019 --> 00:15:35,290
enjoy it as much as I did there's no

346
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:37,029
other place that I've experienced that

347
00:15:41,730 --> 00:15:39,610
you feel so closely connected to the

348
00:15:43,740 --> 00:15:41,740
history of paranormal activity as that

349
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:43,750
place and I've been to a lot of and

350
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:45,010
we'll cover some of them on sure I've

351
00:15:50,130 --> 00:15:47,610
been to a lot of historically haunted

352
00:15:52,860 --> 00:15:50,140
historically active places but there's

353
00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:52,870
something about West Virginia you know

354
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:54,610
maybe it's all the shadows associated

355
00:15:57,990 --> 00:15:56,170
with this place but there's something

356
00:15:59,400 --> 00:15:58,000
that that history lives through it maybe

357
00:16:01,230 --> 00:15:59,410
it's its isolation maybe it's because

358
00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:01,240
it's untouched but what was interesting

359
00:16:05,690 --> 00:16:04,089
is that the the Mothman story is really

360
00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:05,700
a story that begins with the salesman

361
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:09,070
who reports a craft and an entity

362
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:12,160
encounter which then leads to these

363
00:16:15,540 --> 00:16:13,930
strange events that happen over a year

364
00:16:17,910 --> 00:16:15,550
in or around Point Pleasant West

365
00:16:20,639 --> 00:16:17,920
Virginia and it all ends with this

366
00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:20,649
tragic bridge collapse where 46 people

367
00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:22,870
died they all fall into the Ohio River

368
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:25,690
but you know while Christmas shopping so

369
00:16:30,540 --> 00:16:28,720
it's it's a heavy place as well there's

370
00:16:33,050 --> 00:16:30,550
a lot of trauma there's a lot of

371
00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:33,060
interesting energy happening seemingly

372
00:16:39,870 --> 00:16:36,310
but it's also perhaps a story about the

373
00:16:41,579 --> 00:16:39,880
nature of reality and it's because of

374
00:16:43,710 --> 00:16:41,589
this that it's been an inspiration to so

375
00:16:45,810 --> 00:16:43,720
many of those in the paranormal field to

376
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:45,820
look for some sort of unified

377
00:16:50,130 --> 00:16:48,399
explanation of the strange actually you

378
00:16:55,530 --> 00:16:50,140
know because the story of Point Pleasant

379
00:16:58,500 --> 00:16:55,540
in 1966 it it's one about monsters UFOs

380
00:17:00,300 --> 00:16:58,510
men and black synchronicities

381
00:17:01,980 --> 00:17:00,310
so that that's why I knew the new cooks

382
00:17:05,159 --> 00:17:01,990
and myself went out to West Virginia a

383
00:17:07,049 --> 00:17:05,169
few times last fall to record story

384
00:17:09,689 --> 00:17:07,059
serve you've met but we created some

385
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:09,699
really interesting episodes I think but

386
00:17:14,370 --> 00:17:12,010
there was still so much more I wanted to

387
00:17:16,770 --> 00:17:14,380
say about the history of that place and

388
00:17:19,289 --> 00:17:16,780
the lore of Point Pleasant and I think

389
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:19,299
again those old personal stories of this

390
00:17:23,010 --> 00:17:21,250
stuff are just as important as what is

391
00:17:27,299 --> 00:17:23,020
happening now what was really

392
00:17:29,750 --> 00:17:27,309
interesting is the Indrid cold part of

393
00:17:33,260 --> 00:17:29,760
this and that that archetype is

394
00:17:35,970 --> 00:17:33,270
seemingly present in so much

395
00:17:38,220 --> 00:17:35,980
supernatural and paranormal phenomenon

396
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:38,230
that I was actually really interested in

397
00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:42,250
asking you about what your feelings are

398
00:17:49,350 --> 00:17:44,890
about injured cold and his place in

399
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:49,360
ufology yeah I mean for any any of those

400
00:17:53,820 --> 00:17:51,130
out there who've studied the work of Keo

401
00:17:56,730 --> 00:17:53,830
or even heard the name injure cold it

402
00:17:59,880 --> 00:17:56,740
just it it conjures these rather

403
00:18:02,070 --> 00:17:59,890
terrifying images of this you know Pal

404
00:18:05,460 --> 00:18:02,080
grinning man almost but when you

405
00:18:08,940 --> 00:18:05,470
actually look or should I say here the

406
00:18:11,850 --> 00:18:08,950
accounts from from derenberger when you

407
00:18:15,180 --> 00:18:11,860
actually hear his voice in your episode

408
00:18:18,690 --> 00:18:15,190
who knows how long or short after he had

409
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:18,700
that encounter it's it's not so much a

410
00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:20,290
terrifying experience

411
00:18:25,890 --> 00:18:24,070
it was almost beautiful in a way when he

412
00:18:29,159 --> 00:18:25,900
had this this encounter with this

413
00:18:31,530 --> 00:18:29,169
strange strange being known as cold as

414
00:18:34,980 --> 00:18:31,540
Indra cold and following closely behind

415
00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:34,990
this car was this unidentified flying

416
00:18:40,169 --> 00:18:37,809
object and as a car ahead or the car

417
00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:40,179
behind passed me this object was

418
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:42,160
following placed behind it and it served

419
00:18:47,130 --> 00:18:44,320
directly in front of my truck turning

420
00:18:49,430 --> 00:18:47,140
crosswise and when it turned crosswise

421
00:18:52,590 --> 00:18:49,440
it slowed down it started slowing not

422
00:18:54,659 --> 00:18:52,600
directly or too fast but it gave me

423
00:18:57,150 --> 00:18:54,669
plenty of time to step on my brakes and

424
00:19:00,030 --> 00:18:57,160
slow down with it but it forced me to

425
00:19:01,980 --> 00:19:00,040
come to a complete stop as soon as I had

426
00:19:05,150 --> 00:19:01,990
stopped there was a door opened in the

427
00:19:09,390 --> 00:19:05,160
side of this vehicle and this man

428
00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:09,400
stepped out and came directly to me and

429
00:19:15,659 --> 00:19:11,470
this man stood there and they

430
00:19:17,639 --> 00:19:15,669
he first asked me what I was called and

431
00:19:21,450 --> 00:19:17,649
I mean he meant my name and I told him

432
00:19:23,490 --> 00:19:21,460
my name and then he asked me he said why

433
00:19:25,249 --> 00:19:23,500
are you frightened he said don't be

434
00:19:28,110 --> 00:19:25,259
frightened we wish you no harm

435
00:19:31,590 --> 00:19:28,120
he said we mean you no harm we wish you

436
00:19:33,930 --> 00:19:31,600
only happiness and I told him my name

437
00:19:38,340 --> 00:19:33,940
and when I told him my name he said he

438
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:38,350
was called cold that was the name of he

439
00:19:45,269 --> 00:19:41,970
was cold bye and as far as I can

440
00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:45,279
understand this was all mental

441
00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:47,950
there was no spoken words from him I

442
00:19:53,759 --> 00:19:51,490
knew what he was asking me but yet he

443
00:19:57,629 --> 00:19:53,769
stood there and his mouth did not move

444
00:20:00,930 --> 00:19:57,639
he had a smile on his face he prepared

445
00:20:03,869 --> 00:20:00,940
very courteous and friendly and after I

446
00:20:05,999 --> 00:20:03,879
talked with him awhile he told me he

447
00:20:10,619 --> 00:20:06,009
would see me he said we will see you

448
00:20:14,669 --> 00:20:10,629
again and he left and his yeah so for me

449
00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:14,679
this is one where I will turn people to

450
00:20:19,889 --> 00:20:17,049
this if they really want to start

451
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:19,899
looking into the UFO phenomenon from a

452
00:20:26,970 --> 00:20:24,129
very deep personal place I mean the the

453
00:20:29,580 --> 00:20:26,980
this case is just wrought with

454
00:20:31,889 --> 00:20:29,590
everything like you said UFOs Mothman

455
00:20:34,289 --> 00:20:31,899
the the the Silver Bridge collapse

456
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:34,299
you've got the flatwoods monster case

457
00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:36,370
happening in the West Virginia area as

458
00:20:44,129 --> 00:20:39,340
well so it all like you said swirls into

459
00:20:47,009 --> 00:20:44,139
this whole weird spectrum of the weird

460
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:47,019
the unexplainable and it's not just nuts

461
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:49,450
and bolts apology and that's why I turn

462
00:20:53,940 --> 00:20:51,250
people to this if you're if you want to

463
00:20:57,419 --> 00:20:53,950
go into looking at the UFO mythos or

464
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,429
history strictly as flying saucer seen

465
00:21:02,340 --> 00:20:59,200
in the sky and reported you're gonna be

466
00:21:05,340 --> 00:21:02,350
very I think both surprised and a little

467
00:21:07,139 --> 00:21:05,350
a little taken back by how far and deep

468
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:07,149
this all actually goes and how

469
00:21:12,029 --> 00:21:09,610
interconnected it is so for me the

470
00:21:14,340 --> 00:21:12,039
injured cold thing is just something I'm

471
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:14,350
only beginning to scratch the surface of

472
00:21:21,899 --> 00:21:16,720
personally yeah it's very interesting

473
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:21,909
because he is a character he is an

474
00:21:28,410 --> 00:21:24,850
entity perhaps says

475
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:28,420
more about us than it does about him you

476
00:21:32,570 --> 00:21:30,490
only mean our reactions to him um what

477
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:32,580
we think about him and that's

478
00:21:37,740 --> 00:21:34,810
essentially I think where I've landed

479
00:21:40,620 --> 00:21:37,750
with this phenomenon in general so when

480
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:40,630
I started the new series of you ferment

481
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:43,690
with you from that season one I had no

482
00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:47,440
idea what this project had in store for

483
00:21:52,740 --> 00:21:51,370
me and so almost a year later I'm left

484
00:21:53,850 --> 00:21:52,750
in a place where I don't know what I

485
00:21:55,860 --> 00:21:53,860
believe anymore

486
00:21:57,630 --> 00:21:55,870
it has shattered every single

487
00:21:59,640 --> 00:21:57,640
expectation now I know the last time I

488
00:22:02,040 --> 00:21:59,650
was on your show we talked about my

489
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:02,050
first hiatus from the original series of

490
00:22:06,210 --> 00:22:03,610
you ferment which was sort of this

491
00:22:08,250 --> 00:22:06,220
experimental talk show format with some

492
00:22:10,770 --> 00:22:08,260
audio documentary and music and stuff I

493
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:10,780
had to step away from that at a point in

494
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:13,450
time when I spun out because of some

495
00:22:19,530 --> 00:22:17,530
increased activity around UFO sightings

496
00:22:21,420 --> 00:22:19,540
and my relationship with that phenomenon

497
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:21,430
which kind of just freaked me out

498
00:22:28,620 --> 00:22:25,690
and some synchronicities that were too

499
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:28,630
strange to be just coincidence at this

500
00:22:34,110 --> 00:22:31,200
point in time I was committed to

501
00:22:36,150 --> 00:22:34,120
finishing a season of the show I was on

502
00:22:39,780 --> 00:22:36,160
a network it's my job

503
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:39,790
I couldn't walked away so at this point

504
00:22:45,420 --> 00:22:42,310
I was forced to stare into the abyss and

505
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:45,430
have it stare back at me and reckon with

506
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:47,650
that typically while I was on the road

507
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:49,450
and I think that's what West Virginia I

508
00:22:55,190 --> 00:22:51,850
think that's what keel I think that with

509
00:22:58,530 --> 00:22:55,200
these stories they say more about us as

510
00:23:01,890 --> 00:22:58,540
people interested in the paranormal than

511
00:23:04,710 --> 00:23:01,900
anything else almost because we can more

512
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:04,720
easily seemingly step into the shoes of

513
00:23:09,390 --> 00:23:07,930
keel for a moment then we even can I

514
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:09,400
mean for me at least

515
00:23:14,820 --> 00:23:12,130
Hynek you know jeon Hynek that guy was a

516
00:23:17,580 --> 00:23:14,830
genius right he was a university

517
00:23:19,530 --> 00:23:17,590
professor I'm a podcaster I make content

518
00:23:21,540 --> 00:23:19,540
I'd create stories I mean it's not all

519
00:23:23,730 --> 00:23:21,550
too dissimilar to what people do with

520
00:23:26,490 --> 00:23:23,740
investigations and hard line scientific

521
00:23:28,170 --> 00:23:26,500
research qu'il was a writer he wouldn't

522
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:28,180
win this stuff when he got the call

523
00:23:32,910 --> 00:23:30,250
about the Mothman he was actually

524
00:23:35,010 --> 00:23:32,920
already in West Virginia but at the time

525
00:23:39,830 --> 00:23:35,020
he was writing for a magazine covering a

526
00:23:44,820 --> 00:23:42,930
as you do so you know he wrote for

527
00:23:46,470 --> 00:23:44,830
magazines like playboy he was actually

528
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:46,480
out on the road for them researching the

529
00:23:52,470 --> 00:23:49,570
UFO phenomenon so I I you know I I think

530
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:52,480
he is it is a sort of a perfect example

531
00:23:58,830 --> 00:23:55,450
of the work that a lot of us are doing

532
00:24:00,990 --> 00:23:58,840
right now much closer than someone that

533
00:24:02,970 --> 00:24:01,000
perhaps is a more of a studious lungeing

534
00:24:05,250 --> 00:24:02,980
lineage so I think we connect with qu'il

535
00:24:07,770 --> 00:24:05,260
and I think that you know speaking of

536
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:07,780
the Newkirk's it's not too dissimilar to

537
00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:10,240
what they're experiencing and if you

538
00:24:14,010 --> 00:24:11,920
actually watch they have this great new

539
00:24:16,050 --> 00:24:14,020
web series called hell you're out right

540
00:24:18,270 --> 00:24:16,060
now and it's on Amazon Prime it's on

541
00:24:20,550 --> 00:24:18,280
Hellyer TV I believe you can watch it

542
00:24:22,980 --> 00:24:20,560
pretty much everywhere that is the

543
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:22,990
closest I think in addition to you from

544
00:24:28,410 --> 00:24:25,330
that that that is the closest that you

545
00:24:30,300 --> 00:24:28,420
can get to feeling like you're in these

546
00:24:34,050 --> 00:24:30,310
spaces and I I think it's really

547
00:24:36,510 --> 00:24:34,060
interesting that some of some of those

548
00:24:38,580 --> 00:24:36,520
on in the field right now with boots on

549
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:38,590
the ground are being very honest about

550
00:24:43,590 --> 00:24:41,170
their relationship to this phenomenon

551
00:24:45,450 --> 00:24:43,600
and it's a very rocky relationship and

552
00:24:48,510 --> 00:24:45,460
we're we don't always know where each

553
00:24:51,330 --> 00:24:48,520
other stands us in reality so you know

554
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:51,340
watch Hellyer and experience some of the

555
00:24:56,700 --> 00:24:53,290
stuff that John keel was talking about

556
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:56,710
and experience how maybe he felt sort of

557
00:25:01,140 --> 00:24:59,200
all alone in the hills of West Virginia

558
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:01,150
in the 60s we have you traveled into

559
00:25:05,910 --> 00:25:03,850
West Virginia next the other one I there

560
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:05,920
really stood out to me was your your

561
00:25:10,740 --> 00:25:08,650
trip to the Stanley Hotel you got to do

562
00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:10,750
some pretty cool stuff while you were

563
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:12,490
there so can you maybe tell us a little

564
00:25:19,050 --> 00:25:15,490
bit about spirit divination and what

565
00:25:22,020 --> 00:25:19,060
that represents yeah so the Stanley

566
00:25:25,020 --> 00:25:22,030
Hotel for those not familiar with this

567
00:25:27,810 --> 00:25:25,030
place is the inspiration for Stephen

568
00:25:29,730 --> 00:25:27,820
King's Overlook Hotel in the classic

569
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:29,740
book The Shining I went and actually

570
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:31,330
grabbed a statement about how it

571
00:25:35,460 --> 00:25:32,890
inspired him and I think it paints a

572
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:35,470
really good picture of the setting in

573
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:37,090
which you're walking around in when

574
00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:39,250
you're there and so he said in late

575
00:25:44,460 --> 00:25:42,190
September of 74 tabi and I spent the

576
00:25:45,390 --> 00:25:44,470
night at a Grand Hotel in Estes Park

577
00:25:47,970 --> 00:25:45,400
Colorado

578
00:25:49,770 --> 00:25:47,980
the Stanley we were the only guests as

579
00:25:51,210 --> 00:25:49,780
it turned out the following day they

580
00:25:51,630 --> 00:25:51,220
were going to close the place down for

581
00:25:53,460 --> 00:25:51,640
winter

582
00:25:55,620 --> 00:25:53,470
wandering through his corridors I

583
00:25:57,450 --> 00:25:55,630
thought that it seemed the perfect maybe

584
00:25:59,970 --> 00:25:57,460
the are typical setting for a ghost

585
00:26:01,530 --> 00:25:59,980
story that night I dreamed of my

586
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:01,540
three-year-old son running through the

587
00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:04,090
corridors looking back over his shoulder

588
00:26:09,810 --> 00:26:07,390
eyes wide screaming he was being chased

589
00:26:11,970 --> 00:26:09,820
by a fire hose I woke up with a

590
00:26:14,070 --> 00:26:11,980
tremendous jerk sweating all over within

591
00:26:16,799 --> 00:26:14,080
an inch of falling out of bed I got up

592
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:16,809
lit a cigarette sat in the chair looking

593
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:18,730
out the window at the Rockies and what

594
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:21,010
time the cigarette was done I had the

595
00:26:27,030 --> 00:26:23,290
bones of the book firmly set in my mind

596
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:27,040
so so everything he said is true when

597
00:26:31,169 --> 00:26:29,290
walking the corridors you can imagine

598
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:31,179
yourself being chased by a ghostly fire

599
00:26:36,990 --> 00:26:34,330
hose you have this historic mansion in

600
00:26:39,330 --> 00:26:37,000
an epic setting it's the quintessential

601
00:26:42,299 --> 00:26:39,340
setting for any haunted hotel movie ever

602
00:26:45,690 --> 00:26:42,309
but the thing is this those feelings are

603
00:26:47,909 --> 00:26:45,700
are more than some form of a cultural

604
00:26:50,970 --> 00:26:47,919
ization or inspiration from pop culture

605
00:26:54,120 --> 00:26:50,980
they're they're not a lie the phenomenon

606
00:26:56,909 --> 00:26:54,130
seems to be real they're the stories

607
00:27:00,659 --> 00:26:56,919
that come out of this place certainly

608
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:00,669
are real so I went there I got together

609
00:27:04,919 --> 00:27:02,890
with Carl Pfeiffer and Connor Randall

610
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:04,929
these are two notable ghost

611
00:27:10,260 --> 00:27:06,970
investigators they can also be seen in

612
00:27:12,330 --> 00:27:10,270
Hillier actually Carl you had you just

613
00:27:15,419 --> 00:27:12,340
had on the show right yeah and is the

614
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:15,429
director of Hellyer Carl and Connor were

615
00:27:20,159 --> 00:27:17,679
the resident investigators for a number

616
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:20,169
of years they have most certainly

617
00:27:24,030 --> 00:27:21,970
conducted the most investigations this

618
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:24,040
location has ever had in its history and

619
00:27:31,350 --> 00:27:27,610
over time not only seem to be able to

620
00:27:32,820 --> 00:27:31,360
identify unique individual spirits but

621
00:27:36,780 --> 00:27:32,830
moreover they developed relationships

622
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:36,790
with these spirits engaging you know

623
00:27:41,580 --> 00:27:39,330
sometimes in rich conversations

624
00:27:43,950 --> 00:27:41,590
connecting and even discovering some

625
00:27:46,169 --> 00:27:43,960
lore associated with other historic

626
00:27:48,180 --> 00:27:46,179
stories they found through their

627
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:48,190
investigations were able to disprove

628
00:27:52,860 --> 00:27:51,130
certain myths associated with some of

629
00:27:56,700 --> 00:27:52,870
the spirits that people were allegedly

630
00:27:58,409 --> 00:27:56,710
encountering they did this using a lot

631
00:28:00,540 --> 00:27:58,419
of different techniques but one of the

632
00:28:02,370 --> 00:28:00,550
ones that was most sort of startling to

633
00:28:04,860 --> 00:28:02,380
me and one that I experienced myself was

634
00:28:07,020 --> 00:28:04,870
the Estes method this

635
00:28:10,170 --> 00:28:07,030
method that Carl and Connor created it

636
00:28:12,420 --> 00:28:10,180
was using technique and tools from other

637
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:12,430
divination other ghost investigation

638
00:28:17,340 --> 00:28:14,770
techniques and kind of smashingly the

639
00:28:19,799 --> 00:28:17,350
other to create a different situation of

640
00:28:22,710 --> 00:28:19,809
course named after Estes Park the Estes

641
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:22,720
method being originated there so great

642
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:24,850
Newkirk actually just wrote an excellent

643
00:28:29,580 --> 00:28:27,490
piece detailing the Estes method at

644
00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:29,590
weekend weird calm so I encourage folks

645
00:28:33,780 --> 00:28:31,690
to check that out but basically carl

646
00:28:35,549 --> 00:28:33,790
connor and their partner michelle Tate

647
00:28:37,830 --> 00:28:35,559
she was another investigator at the time

648
00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:37,840
of the Stanley they were all spitballing

649
00:28:41,580 --> 00:28:39,520
an idea they'd been kicking around since

650
00:28:43,410 --> 00:28:41,590
you know 2011 or so when they had

651
00:28:46,650 --> 00:28:43,420
started you know what if they isolated

652
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:46,660
the noise from a spirit box a spirit box

653
00:28:49,950 --> 00:28:48,490
for those that are not familiar you'll

654
00:28:52,049 --> 00:28:49,960
see them on a lot of ghost hunting

655
00:28:54,510 --> 00:28:52,059
investigation TV shows these are a

656
00:28:57,210 --> 00:28:54,520
device that essentially sweeps through

657
00:28:59,210 --> 00:28:57,220
the radio signals and it pulls like sort

658
00:29:02,100 --> 00:28:59,220
of random noises that come through and

659
00:29:03,900 --> 00:29:02,110
you know the this the spirit box has

660
00:29:05,910 --> 00:29:03,910
been sort of manipulated by ghost

661
00:29:09,450 --> 00:29:05,920
hunters or essentially manipulated by

662
00:29:12,419 --> 00:29:09,460
spirits rather to give to give a signal

663
00:29:14,850 --> 00:29:12,429
fans probably go through especially in

664
00:29:16,260 --> 00:29:14,860
terms of TV right yeah and and then

665
00:29:18,450 --> 00:29:16,270
those signals are fed into a person

666
00:29:20,340 --> 00:29:18,460
essentially making them the receiver so

667
00:29:23,010 --> 00:29:20,350
what they did is they hook caught her up

668
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:23,020
to a pair of headphones they sat him

669
00:29:28,260 --> 00:29:26,290
down in the concert halls basement the

670
00:29:29,970 --> 00:29:28,270
hallway of the basement where they had

671
00:29:33,390 --> 00:29:29,980
been experiencing sort of increased

672
00:29:35,940 --> 00:29:33,400
activity while Connor set quietly closed

673
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:35,950
his eyes he was listening to the REC

674
00:29:41,190 --> 00:29:38,770
feed of the sb7 which is the technical

675
00:29:44,370 --> 00:29:41,200
name for the spirit box Carl began to

676
00:29:46,770 --> 00:29:44,380
ask him questions and these questions

677
00:29:48,810 --> 00:29:46,780
were pointed at the ghost in the Stanley

678
00:29:51,330 --> 00:29:48,820
well Connor began to spit out answers

679
00:29:54,419 --> 00:29:51,340
these answers actually made sense

680
00:29:58,230 --> 00:29:54,429
they were seemingly real replies to what

681
00:30:00,950 --> 00:29:58,240
Carl was asking so you know they soon

682
00:30:03,690 --> 00:30:00,960
added a blindfolded they soon added

683
00:30:06,150 --> 00:30:03,700
noise-reducing headphones and this was

684
00:30:08,490 --> 00:30:06,160
essentially just to make sure that the

685
00:30:10,110 --> 00:30:08,500
receiver was was completely just paying

686
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:10,120
attention to the signals he was

687
00:30:12,030 --> 00:30:11,530
receiving in his headphones and nothing

688
00:30:14,940 --> 00:30:12,040
else

689
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:14,950
no lip-reading no oh I can hear you

690
00:30:18,660 --> 00:30:17,530
outside of the headphones I tried it

691
00:30:20,039 --> 00:30:18,670
myself

692
00:30:24,150 --> 00:30:20,049
I put on the headphones I put on the

693
00:30:25,890 --> 00:30:24,160
blindfold it was freaky just for lack of

694
00:30:27,630 --> 00:30:25,900
better words if you're hearing this

695
00:30:30,299 --> 00:30:27,640
jingle at full volume

696
00:30:33,030 --> 00:30:30,309
it's like glitching at you it's like I'm

697
00:30:37,289 --> 00:30:33,040
sure people that are familiar with EDM

698
00:30:41,250 --> 00:30:37,299
music and you know trance music might be

699
00:30:42,690 --> 00:30:41,260
very into this because it really is it

700
00:30:46,289 --> 00:30:42,700
changes your state of consciousness

701
00:30:48,060 --> 00:30:46,299
almost I believe just like various light

702
00:30:49,980 --> 00:30:48,070
patterns can do that very sound

703
00:30:52,409 --> 00:30:49,990
signatures and vibrations can can

704
00:30:55,289 --> 00:30:52,419
seemingly change what our conscious

705
00:30:58,919 --> 00:30:55,299
levels are and this most certainly seems

706
00:31:00,659 --> 00:30:58,929
to do that so we're in my room of the

707
00:31:02,250 --> 00:31:00,669
fourth floor of the Stanley I had been

708
00:31:03,870 --> 00:31:02,260
taken through the dark corridors already

709
00:31:06,659 --> 00:31:03,880
you know had all the goosebumps

710
00:31:09,210 --> 00:31:06,669
associated with hunting for ghosts and a

711
00:31:11,250 --> 00:31:09,220
historically haunted place like this and

712
00:31:14,039 --> 00:31:11,260
they pulled out all the stuff for the

713
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:14,049
estus method and we began to perform the

714
00:31:19,409 --> 00:31:17,890
estus method in my hotel room so as Carl

715
00:31:22,590 --> 00:31:19,419
began to ask questions

716
00:31:25,409 --> 00:31:22,600
Connor began saying whatever pops up in

717
00:31:27,750 --> 00:31:25,419
the scan and being that these two have

718
00:31:30,539 --> 00:31:27,760
conducted conversations in-depth

719
00:31:32,940 --> 00:31:30,549
discussions actually with with someone

720
00:31:34,620 --> 00:31:32,950
perhaps for hours they weren't so

721
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:34,630
surprised by what we found that night

722
00:31:40,049 --> 00:31:37,510
too but but to me as a first-time

723
00:31:44,159 --> 00:31:40,059
observer it was it was absolutely

724
00:31:48,409 --> 00:31:44,169
jarring Ryan to be there to see their

725
00:31:51,180 --> 00:31:48,419
exchange to hear the unsolicited

726
00:31:54,799 --> 00:31:51,190
seemingly answers

727
00:31:59,640 --> 00:31:54,809
that Connor was giving out and to have

728
00:32:02,970 --> 00:31:59,650
to have Connor say things like Jim are

729
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:02,980
you recording as I stand across the room

730
00:32:07,470 --> 00:32:05,650
and begin to record with my recorder was

731
00:32:10,650 --> 00:32:07,480
something I'll never I'll never forget

732
00:32:16,409 --> 00:32:10,660
and so at some point I realized I had to

733
00:32:18,390 --> 00:32:16,419
sleep in that room after they left and

734
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:18,400
that perhaps was the most frightening

735
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:20,410
part of that that even but no there's

736
00:32:27,570 --> 00:32:23,049
certainly some sort of real phenomenon

737
00:32:29,340 --> 00:32:27,580
going on there the stories about the

738
00:32:31,740 --> 00:32:29,350
level of activity there's certainly

739
00:32:32,430 --> 00:32:31,750
something to it and I felt it firsthand

740
00:32:34,650 --> 00:32:32,440
and I'll never

741
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:34,660
forget it but I was wondering and I

742
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:36,610
wanted to ask you Ryan does does any of

743
00:32:41,070 --> 00:32:39,130
that resonate with you have you been to

744
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:41,080
a location that doesn't even have to

745
00:32:46,350 --> 00:32:42,730
really convince you that something

746
00:32:50,490 --> 00:32:46,360
supernatural is going on yeah so I mean

747
00:32:53,330 --> 00:32:50,500
for me I've been sharing this recently

748
00:32:58,380 --> 00:32:53,340
on a few interviews that I was the

749
00:33:00,900 --> 00:32:58,390
interviewee of and I had one I would say

750
00:33:04,260 --> 00:33:00,910
supernatural experience that completely

751
00:33:06,930 --> 00:33:04,270
shifted my reality my perception of the

752
00:33:10,050 --> 00:33:06,940
supernatural and I I'll be honest man

753
00:33:12,450 --> 00:33:10,060
I'm I've always been very skeptical when

754
00:33:14,940 --> 00:33:12,460
it comes to the paranormal and which is

755
00:33:16,410 --> 00:33:14,950
odd because I am a UFO investigator so

756
00:33:18,150 --> 00:33:16,420
many people would think that I would

757
00:33:20,940 --> 00:33:18,160
have a very open mind when it came to

758
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:20,950
this this possibly connected phenomena

759
00:33:25,860 --> 00:33:23,770
or disconnected phenomena but I had an

760
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:25,870
experience in nova scotia in liverpool

761
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:26,770
nova scotia

762
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:30,850
at the Queens County Museum where I

763
00:33:35,690 --> 00:33:33,730
worked with a spirit box it was the

764
00:33:40,170 --> 00:33:35,700
first time I'd ever heard of this thing

765
00:33:42,750 --> 00:33:40,180
experienced it and it's hard for me to

766
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:42,760
talk about this one because I I don't

767
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:47,050
know how to put into words how I felt

768
00:33:51,540 --> 00:33:49,570
and what I experienced and I'm still

769
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:51,550
trying to this day I try to write it out

770
00:33:56,580 --> 00:33:54,010
as best I can and I ended up you know

771
00:33:59,130 --> 00:33:56,590
throwing away the the paper or the file

772
00:34:02,340 --> 00:33:59,140
that I was typing up of it it's so

773
00:34:05,490 --> 00:34:02,350
personal and it's so it's so powerful

774
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:05,500
and impactful in that moment that even

775
00:34:09,750 --> 00:34:07,450
if I were to try to write down what

776
00:34:12,510 --> 00:34:09,760
happened it would never it would pale in

777
00:34:15,390 --> 00:34:12,520
comparison to what actually happened you

778
00:34:17,790 --> 00:34:15,400
know yeah well I'll save you on this one

779
00:34:20,610 --> 00:34:17,800
I'll toss you a lifeline and and just

780
00:34:23,460 --> 00:34:20,620
say I completely empathize with you

781
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:23,470
because at the end of season one of you

782
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:26,530
from that I had to create an entirely

783
00:34:32,610 --> 00:34:29,890
new series called obscura to help me

784
00:34:36,210 --> 00:34:32,620
work out what the hell I experienced

785
00:34:38,610 --> 00:34:36,220
during that common because there are no

786
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:38,620
works so so for these experience where

787
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:40,290
there are no words and you're still

788
00:34:46,169 --> 00:34:43,450
struggling when you're challenged but by

789
00:34:48,049 --> 00:34:46,179
these notions that shake your your firm

790
00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:48,059
belief in what is real and what is not

791
00:34:53,210 --> 00:34:50,649
howdy how do you communicate that to

792
00:34:56,420 --> 00:34:53,220
someone in addition to being

793
00:34:59,910 --> 00:34:56,430
communicated in a way that perhaps

794
00:35:01,020 --> 00:34:59,920
hopefully allows them in with what

795
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:01,030
you're experiencing a little bit how do

796
00:35:05,970 --> 00:35:03,010
you illustrate these experiences in that

797
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:05,980
way and so I get it man it takes a long

798
00:35:10,079 --> 00:35:07,210
time to process that and some people

799
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:10,089
never do right how many who don't never

800
00:35:14,490 --> 00:35:12,880
do it what is very interesting to me is

801
00:35:17,460 --> 00:35:14,500
that I don't know if you feel this way

802
00:35:20,069 --> 00:35:17,470
about the experience that that you're

803
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:20,079
struggling to reconcile right now do you

804
00:35:24,030 --> 00:35:22,089
feel and this is a personal question as

805
00:35:26,809 --> 00:35:24,040
well I'm sorry I turned your show around

806
00:35:31,620 --> 00:35:26,819
on you here oh please but do you feel

807
00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:31,630
any sense of shame associated with it

808
00:35:40,290 --> 00:35:34,960
yes I do I completely know what you mean

809
00:35:42,660 --> 00:35:40,300
I feel shame because I I'm a relay er of

810
00:35:45,420 --> 00:35:42,670
stories kind of like yourself and many

811
00:35:47,069 --> 00:35:45,430
other people out there who who want to

812
00:35:50,099 --> 00:35:47,079
give voices to those who've had these

813
00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:50,109
inexplicable experiences and can't quite

814
00:35:54,180 --> 00:35:52,510
find the words for it so that's where

815
00:35:56,609 --> 00:35:54,190
I'd like to come in and be like look I

816
00:35:58,620 --> 00:35:56,619
got this I went to school for writing I

817
00:36:00,900 --> 00:35:58,630
I'm good with characters I'm a

818
00:36:02,910 --> 00:36:00,910
playwright like I got you I will get

819
00:36:05,339 --> 00:36:02,920
your voice out there and it's gonna be

820
00:36:09,359 --> 00:36:05,349
clear and concise and you're gonna love

821
00:36:12,539 --> 00:36:09,369
it and now I find myself in the shoes of

822
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:12,549
the witness or the experiencer and I

823
00:36:16,530 --> 00:36:14,530
have no idea what the fuck'd of right

824
00:36:19,020 --> 00:36:16,540
and that's what I'm that's where I find

825
00:36:21,630 --> 00:36:19,030
myself right now is for me you know you

826
00:36:23,370 --> 00:36:21,640
found obscura to be your way of trying

827
00:36:26,490 --> 00:36:23,380
to translate or interpret these things

828
00:36:29,430 --> 00:36:26,500
for me I'm I'm trying to right now an

829
00:36:32,660 --> 00:36:29,440
entire book about a topic I know nothing

830
00:36:35,819 --> 00:36:32,670
about and they're normal and I'm I'm

831
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:35,829
talking to people in the academic field

832
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:38,650
it's the scientific field UFO research

833
00:36:43,230 --> 00:36:41,530
paranormal and I'm like am I am I an

834
00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:43,240
idiot should I even be attempting to

835
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:44,710
write about this something I know

836
00:36:48,780 --> 00:36:46,960
nothing about and all of them said if

837
00:36:51,809 --> 00:36:48,790
it's what you want to write about then

838
00:36:53,789 --> 00:36:51,819
do it so for me man I understand the

839
00:36:58,410 --> 00:36:53,799
whole shame thing and for me it's more

840
00:36:59,940 --> 00:36:58,420
of feeling shameful of I might get some

841
00:37:02,880 --> 00:36:59,950
some hate for this

842
00:37:04,530 --> 00:37:02,890
or be so skeptical of all these other

843
00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:04,540
topics that are out there then you're

844
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:08,320
exploring and that experience I've spent

845
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:10,810
my whole life looking up into the skies

846
00:37:16,740 --> 00:37:13,510
for answers to the UFO phenomena and

847
00:37:18,810 --> 00:37:16,750
I've sort of brushed off everything else

848
00:37:21,210 --> 00:37:18,820
that's a weird and crazy going on right

849
00:37:23,910 --> 00:37:21,220
here on the ground so for me it's a

850
00:37:26,580 --> 00:37:23,920
shame of feeling like I for so long have

851
00:37:29,010 --> 00:37:26,590
closed my mind and maybe even my heart

852
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:29,020
off to these other things going on all

853
00:37:34,260 --> 00:37:32,290
around me so I'm trying to reconcile

854
00:37:36,690 --> 00:37:34,270
with that right now in trying to now

855
00:37:39,090 --> 00:37:36,700
reach out to the paranormal community

856
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:39,100
and to others investigating other things

857
00:37:46,530 --> 00:37:43,450
and to open that door for them to come

858
00:37:49,170 --> 00:37:46,540
on my show or to talk to me in interview

859
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:49,180
form and to really start exploring and I

860
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:51,610
know it's gonna be scary and funny and

861
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:53,530
weird and awkward beautiful whatever

862
00:37:58,710 --> 00:37:55,570
it's gonna be is what its gonna be

863
00:38:01,470 --> 00:37:58,720
so I trying to strip away that shame and

864
00:38:03,870 --> 00:38:01,480
trying to embrace these things more each

865
00:38:05,850 --> 00:38:03,880
day yeah I I resonate with that

866
00:38:07,500 --> 00:38:05,860
completely and you know what's

867
00:38:10,740 --> 00:38:07,510
interesting about it is perhaps we need

868
00:38:12,270 --> 00:38:10,750
to remember it you know we need to move

869
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:12,280
past it but we need to remember that

870
00:38:19,020 --> 00:38:15,370
feeling because how better to empathize

871
00:38:22,470 --> 00:38:19,030
with the witnesses with the experiences

872
00:38:24,690 --> 00:38:22,480
that we talk to every day than to feel

873
00:38:27,660 --> 00:38:24,700
how they may feel you know a lot of

874
00:38:30,660 --> 00:38:27,670
folks that you know more people that not

875
00:38:32,820 --> 00:38:30,670
have experiences they can't explain more

876
00:38:35,250 --> 00:38:32,830
people that not never share them because

877
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:35,260
they're ashamed about it and now I know

878
00:38:38,490 --> 00:38:37,330
how that feels now I've already let the

879
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:38,500
cat out of the bag and a few other

880
00:38:44,010 --> 00:38:41,770
podcasting guest appearances about some

881
00:38:47,220 --> 00:38:44,020
of the experiences that I had I hope to

882
00:38:51,030 --> 00:38:47,230
share those in a more detailed and

883
00:38:52,710 --> 00:38:51,040
creative oriented way in in obscura but

884
00:38:54,750 --> 00:38:52,720
you know I had I had my first ghost

885
00:38:57,450 --> 00:38:54,760
apparition sighting well while taping

886
00:38:58,920 --> 00:38:57,460
you from that obscura and it was

887
00:39:01,170 --> 00:38:58,930
actually in West Virginia of all places

888
00:39:04,260 --> 00:39:01,180
and that's a story I haven't shared on

889
00:39:06,330 --> 00:39:04,270
my show yet because you know the main

890
00:39:09,630 --> 00:39:06,340
series not really so much about me it's

891
00:39:11,550 --> 00:39:09,640
about the the feature right obscure is

892
00:39:13,740 --> 00:39:11,560
an opportunity for me to dive back in

893
00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:13,750
and and give myself

894
00:39:18,330 --> 00:39:16,240
the story and give my representation and

895
00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:18,340
I'll tell you what like having to

896
00:39:21,839 --> 00:39:20,320
construct an entire series around this

897
00:39:24,420 --> 00:39:21,849
notion of trying to figure out what the

898
00:39:27,210 --> 00:39:24,430
I saw is an interesting way to do

899
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:27,220
it but I hope I didn't paint myself in a

900
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:30,010
corner well you know even if you did

901
00:39:34,980 --> 00:39:33,040
like that's that's the beauty of it and

902
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:34,990
then then you work your way out from

903
00:39:39,089 --> 00:39:37,210
that corner you know what I mean that's

904
00:39:41,370 --> 00:39:39,099
that's why I love what we're doing is

905
00:39:43,380 --> 00:39:41,380
you know when my book came out it was

906
00:39:45,450 --> 00:39:43,390
all about other people and what they

907
00:39:48,270 --> 00:39:45,460
experienced and getting their voices out

908
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:48,280
there and now for my second book I find

909
00:39:53,430 --> 00:39:50,800
myself sort of walking the same line as

910
00:39:55,980 --> 00:39:53,440
you of okay so I heard all these stories

911
00:39:58,230 --> 00:39:55,990
I got them out there so how did that

912
00:40:00,750 --> 00:39:58,240
what did that do to me how did it affect

913
00:40:02,609 --> 00:40:00,760
me as the the author and the person

914
00:40:03,810 --> 00:40:02,619
interviewing them so that's where I'm

915
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:03,820
going with this second book is

916
00:40:08,099 --> 00:40:06,130
challenging myself and getting my

917
00:40:09,780 --> 00:40:08,109
thoughts and beliefs and opinions out

918
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:09,790
there maybe people won't give a

919
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:11,530
about what I think and that's completely

920
00:40:16,109 --> 00:40:13,690
fine for me the second book is going to

921
00:40:18,420 --> 00:40:16,119
be a journey a personal journey whereas

922
00:40:20,490 --> 00:40:18,430
the the other one was more about other

923
00:40:22,710 --> 00:40:20,500
people so I completely understand what

924
00:40:24,450 --> 00:40:22,720
you're saying I might give up on the

925
00:40:27,420 --> 00:40:24,460
project halfway through I hope I don't

926
00:40:30,089 --> 00:40:27,430
but I want to put myself in those

927
00:40:32,130 --> 00:40:30,099
situations like you did of going out

928
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:32,140
there and experiencing these things and

929
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:35,200
boots on the ground you know my my first

930
00:40:40,589 --> 00:40:38,050
book was a lot of interactions through

931
00:40:42,570 --> 00:40:40,599
email and through Skype and and a couple

932
00:40:44,490 --> 00:40:42,580
of face-to-face interviews and whatnot

933
00:40:47,070 --> 00:40:44,500
which was cool but I want to get out

934
00:40:49,410 --> 00:40:47,080
there and experience these things for

935
00:40:52,349 --> 00:40:49,420
myself because no words I put down about

936
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:52,359
what someone told me will ever compare

937
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:53,650
to actually going out there and

938
00:40:58,650 --> 00:40:56,650
experiencing it myself so yeah it's true

939
00:41:01,800 --> 00:40:58,660
and it's it's very interesting that that

940
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:01,810
you give yourself the out could be like

941
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:04,690
well I might I might get into this but I

942
00:41:09,089 --> 00:41:06,970
might get right back out or I might not

943
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:09,099
finish this thing and honestly that that

944
00:41:13,650 --> 00:41:11,890
that is the process for anyone on this

945
00:41:16,589 --> 00:41:13,660
road right because there are those

946
00:41:18,810 --> 00:41:16,599
moments of spin out I'm sorry I begin to

947
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:18,820
gravitate towards talking about belief

948
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:21,010
and talking about our relationship to

949
00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:23,290
the unknown in these sort of stark more

950
00:41:27,390 --> 00:41:26,560
philosophical degrees because it's it's

951
00:41:29,190 --> 00:41:27,400
what I'm going

952
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:29,200
right now and I think it's what I have

953
00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:32,410
to channel my work through but also be

954
00:41:37,740 --> 00:41:34,510
very careful to subdue it in my own

955
00:41:39,359 --> 00:41:37,750
creative work because there's that point

956
00:41:41,789 --> 00:41:39,369
time where you don't want almost too

957
00:41:44,549 --> 00:41:41,799
much of yourself into the work if that

958
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:44,559
makes sense but you know these these are

959
00:41:50,910 --> 00:41:47,890
things these situations of leap or don't

960
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:50,920
leap there's a lot of information a lot

961
00:41:58,260 --> 00:41:55,450
of thoughts from some of the best minds

962
00:42:01,200 --> 00:41:58,270
in the field that have talked about this

963
00:42:03,269 --> 00:42:01,210
you know philosophers and Psychonauts

964
00:42:06,210 --> 00:42:03,279
like Robert Anton Wilson describing

965
00:42:08,819 --> 00:42:06,220
Chapel perilous you know where it's that

966
00:42:11,910 --> 00:42:08,829
moment where you know you move forward

967
00:42:15,269 --> 00:42:11,920
or become a stark-raving agnostic there

968
00:42:17,970 --> 00:42:15,279
seems to be a fork in the road I talked

969
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:17,980
to the Newark Newkirk's about one foot

970
00:42:22,650 --> 00:42:20,410
in one foot out all the time and that

971
00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:22,660
the importance of that in doing this

972
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:25,119
work is that you know you mentioned that

973
00:42:29,130 --> 00:42:26,890
the pursuit of some of the stuff could

974
00:42:31,529 --> 00:42:29,140
be funny and awkward and and and

975
00:42:34,529 --> 00:42:31,539
unexpected and and I think that's a

976
00:42:37,470 --> 00:42:34,539
great place for that to be because just

977
00:42:40,589 --> 00:42:37,480
like how non-dual kabbalists would

978
00:42:43,220 --> 00:42:40,599
suggest you actually use your ego in the

979
00:42:46,079 --> 00:42:43,230
pursuit for sort of higher consciousness

980
00:42:48,180 --> 00:42:46,089
so perhaps the paranormal investigator

981
00:42:52,019 --> 00:42:48,190
in the sense that you need to ground

982
00:42:53,490 --> 00:42:52,029
yourself in some way to be able to dip

983
00:42:56,309 --> 00:42:53,500
your toe and if the other side because

984
00:42:58,920 --> 00:42:56,319
here's the thing ryan whatever is on the

985
00:43:00,480 --> 00:42:58,930
other side is reflexive seemingly now

986
00:43:02,519 --> 00:43:00,490
this is the part where I don't know what

987
00:43:05,250 --> 00:43:02,529
I believe but I believe something is a

988
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:05,260
little weird in that you know I had this

989
00:43:09,420 --> 00:43:07,210
great conversation with paranormal

990
00:43:11,519 --> 00:43:09,430
investigator John Tenney and he's an OG

991
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:11,529
in this field okay and a lot of us go to

992
00:43:16,769 --> 00:43:13,690
him if we're like spun out and very

993
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:16,779
confused we'll get a hold of John I have

994
00:43:21,269 --> 00:43:18,970
a few times but a lot of my associates

995
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:21,279
lean on him quite heavily to be like

996
00:43:26,549 --> 00:43:23,170
John what do we what are we doing here

997
00:43:29,549 --> 00:43:26,559
you know John once described it very

998
00:43:33,539 --> 00:43:29,559
aptly as some sort of game perhaps in

999
00:43:36,329 --> 00:43:33,549
that if you if you poked or or knock on

1000
00:43:39,510 --> 00:43:36,339
the nature of reality well more often

1001
00:43:41,430 --> 00:43:39,520
than not it may not back and in very

1002
00:43:45,599 --> 00:43:41,440
unexpected ways and so this

1003
00:43:47,189 --> 00:43:45,609
goes into union synchronicity and shared

1004
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:47,199
consciousness all these different very

1005
00:43:52,769 --> 00:43:50,650
deep very deep rabbit holes right that

1006
00:43:54,329 --> 00:43:52,779
we don't know enough about but there is

1007
00:43:57,209 --> 00:43:54,339
some evidence there are stories or

1008
00:44:00,089 --> 00:43:57,219
anecdotal and investigative stories that

1009
00:44:02,670 --> 00:44:00,099
lean into this realm of an unknown

1010
00:44:04,709 --> 00:44:02,680
reality that we can think about we can

1011
00:44:08,609 --> 00:44:04,719
consider but the thing is is that all

1012
00:44:11,689 --> 00:44:08,619
seems to contain this paranormal

1013
00:44:14,670 --> 00:44:11,699
activity where it is anomalous lights

1014
00:44:16,589 --> 00:44:14,680
right whether it is a cryptid creature

1015
00:44:19,499 --> 00:44:16,599
whether it is a ghost haunting

1016
00:44:21,180 --> 00:44:19,509
there seems to be some sort of cosmic

1017
00:44:23,939 --> 00:44:21,190
connection and some of this and I think

1018
00:44:25,859 --> 00:44:23,949
it's trying to tell us maybe maybe it's

1019
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:25,869
trying to tell us something about the

1020
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:27,729
nature reality maybe it's the nature of

1021
00:44:33,359 --> 00:44:31,119
reality actually revealing itself yeah

1022
00:44:35,370 --> 00:44:33,369
sorry I know blue you open there hey yo

1023
00:44:39,029 --> 00:44:35,380
I love it can I ask you a question real

1024
00:44:43,709 --> 00:44:39,039
quick method yep really interested in

1025
00:44:45,479 --> 00:44:43,719
your take on this in regards to

1026
00:44:47,519 --> 00:44:45,489
you know some what some of these cats in

1027
00:44:50,549 --> 00:44:47,529
the UFO field they believe that there is

1028
00:44:53,039 --> 00:44:50,559
a spiritual component to communication

1029
00:44:56,999 --> 00:44:53,049
with UFOs and anomalous lights hmm right

1030
00:44:58,559 --> 00:44:57,009
do you think that if that is true do you

1031
00:45:01,949 --> 00:44:58,569
feel that like something like the Estes

1032
00:45:04,890 --> 00:45:01,959
method could be useful and perhaps UFO

1033
00:45:07,109 --> 00:45:04,900
communication yeah that is a really good

1034
00:45:10,109 --> 00:45:07,119
question I mean as I'm watching Hellyer

1035
00:45:12,390 --> 00:45:10,119
and learning that you it you went

1036
00:45:15,269 --> 00:45:12,400
through this as well it never dawned on

1037
00:45:17,430 --> 00:45:15,279
me like if someone were to have a

1038
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:17,440
prolonged UFO experience I think that's

1039
00:45:22,769 --> 00:45:20,410
that's the problem we run into is these

1040
00:45:25,189 --> 00:45:22,779
UFO events are like done in the blink of

1041
00:45:29,370 --> 00:45:25,199
an eye and there's nothing to to gauge

1042
00:45:32,189 --> 00:45:29,380
you know or to to record or trace but

1043
00:45:33,749 --> 00:45:32,199
maybe just maybe if an event were

1044
00:45:35,999 --> 00:45:33,759
prolonged and we were able to try to

1045
00:45:38,939 --> 00:45:36,009
communicate that way it'd be possible or

1046
00:45:40,620 --> 00:45:38,949
maybe not maybe the event is over and we

1047
00:45:43,349 --> 00:45:40,630
just go to the place where it happened

1048
00:45:46,620 --> 00:45:43,359
in attempt communication through the

1049
00:45:48,599 --> 00:45:46,630
Estes method I'm completely open to that

1050
00:45:50,969 --> 00:45:48,609
and I've actually never thought about it

1051
00:45:52,589 --> 00:45:50,979
yeah I think at this moment I want to

1052
00:45:54,299 --> 00:45:52,599
start another project and someone can

1053
00:45:55,530 --> 00:45:54,309
copy it if they want to I don't care

1054
00:45:58,380 --> 00:45:55,540
like try

1055
00:46:00,600 --> 00:45:58,390
yeah let let's go to the paranormal

1056
00:46:02,310 --> 00:46:00,610
hotspots in the world and let's just

1057
00:46:07,530 --> 00:46:02,320
throw out every single divination and

1058
00:46:09,660 --> 00:46:07,540
just like see what you know I mean I I

1059
00:46:12,660 --> 00:46:09,670
think we're we're at this point in time

1060
00:46:14,730 --> 00:46:12,670
where if a veil exists between us on

1061
00:46:17,370 --> 00:46:14,740
this other side seemingly it's a little

1062
00:46:19,740 --> 00:46:17,380
thin right now and maybe there's maybe

1063
00:46:21,060 --> 00:46:19,750
there's numerology astrology maybe

1064
00:46:23,700 --> 00:46:21,070
there's things that we know cosmically

1065
00:46:26,100 --> 00:46:23,710
that's why that's happening right now in

1066
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:26,110
any case it seems like it is true and I

1067
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:28,090
also feel like that the if there is a

1068
00:46:32,850 --> 00:46:30,970
veil between the different topics of

1069
00:46:35,460 --> 00:46:32,860
interests within the paranormal

1070
00:46:37,980 --> 00:46:35,470
perhaps that is also more thin than ever

1071
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:37,990
before in my regards now that being said

1072
00:46:42,780 --> 00:46:40,930
there has been flaps of others like I

1073
00:46:44,910 --> 00:46:42,790
said trying to figure out you know sort

1074
00:46:46,050 --> 00:46:44,920
of a universal you know Universal

1075
00:46:48,540 --> 00:46:46,060
explanation to spookiness

1076
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:48,550
right I believe it like then Jaffa lay

1077
00:46:53,100 --> 00:46:51,010
even like kind of was messing with this

1078
00:46:54,950 --> 00:46:53,110
idea or created some notions that me

1079
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:54,960
about like sort of a universal

1080
00:47:00,630 --> 00:46:57,610
explanation for further weird oh yeah I

1081
00:47:02,370 --> 00:47:00,640
mean you look at everything he's he's

1082
00:47:04,460 --> 00:47:02,380
looked at in this whole idea of like a

1083
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:04,470
controlled mechanism that's something

1084
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:07,330
bigger and more weird than we ever

1085
00:47:12,540 --> 00:47:09,130
thought possible is in control of all of

1086
00:47:15,150 --> 00:47:12,550
this stuff or maybe it's not in control

1087
00:47:16,830 --> 00:47:15,160
maybe if it opened Pandora's Box itself

1088
00:47:20,010 --> 00:47:16,840
and it can't contain it anymore

1089
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:20,020
yeah well it's it's very interesting

1090
00:47:25,140 --> 00:47:23,050
because that that is how I felt when I

1091
00:47:28,620 --> 00:47:25,150
was doing an episode with Peter Gersten

1092
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:28,630
oh yeah this is the UM this one was

1093
00:47:34,110 --> 00:47:31,570
really out there man I'm not yeah I this

1094
00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:34,120
was um yes please please if you wouldn't

1095
00:47:39,630 --> 00:47:35,680
mind touchin on this one for me the

1096
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:39,640
vortex yeah I I went and visited the

1097
00:47:44,610 --> 00:47:42,250
vortex jumper I thought I was going to

1098
00:47:46,380 --> 00:47:44,620
die I think explain this to us please

1099
00:47:48,870 --> 00:47:46,390
yes so when I reached out to Peter

1100
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:48,880
Gersten about featuring his story and an

1101
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:52,810
audio doc he simply said if you agree to

1102
00:47:58,650 --> 00:47:54,610
come to the top of Bell Rock I'll do it

1103
00:48:00,180 --> 00:47:58,660
and so I was jazzed up I agreed and I

1104
00:48:03,330 --> 00:48:00,190
headed out to where he lives in Sedona

1105
00:48:06,180 --> 00:48:03,340
Arizona obviously that's a loaded place

1106
00:48:08,610 --> 00:48:06,190
in itself for anyone that's not familiar

1107
00:48:09,180 --> 00:48:08,620
with it it's it's full of Crystal shops

1108
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:09,190
and say

1109
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:11,680
kake's it's sort of sort of a

1110
00:48:18,329 --> 00:48:14,170
baby-boomers mystical epicenter in a way

1111
00:48:20,970 --> 00:48:18,339
to physical dreams yes and it's it's

1112
00:48:22,950 --> 00:48:20,980
nestled between these wild red rock

1113
00:48:25,500 --> 00:48:22,960
mountains and one of them is Bell Rock

1114
00:48:28,049 --> 00:48:25,510
in which Peter climbs every single day

1115
00:48:30,180 --> 00:48:28,059
so I'm there with my assistant producer

1116
00:48:32,250 --> 00:48:30,190
Chelsea Webber Smith who actually has

1117
00:48:33,630 --> 00:48:32,260
this great podcast now called American

1118
00:48:36,270 --> 00:48:33,640
hysteria if you want to check that out

1119
00:48:38,940 --> 00:48:36,280
and we meet up with Peter at Bell Rock

1120
00:48:40,740 --> 00:48:38,950
around probably 7 a.m. so we can beat

1121
00:48:44,010 --> 00:48:40,750
the heat right not to mention this is

1122
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:44,020
summer in Arizona so it's already way

1123
00:48:47,970 --> 00:48:46,210
too hot for someone who hasn't gone to

1124
00:48:49,770 --> 00:48:47,980
the gym in months because he was you

1125
00:48:53,069 --> 00:48:49,780
know Holdaway too busy talking about

1126
00:48:56,430 --> 00:48:53,079
UFOs and John D with Ryan spray you know

1127
00:48:59,390 --> 00:48:56,440
so so Peter Gersten was once known as

1128
00:49:02,010 --> 00:48:59,400
the UFO lawyer had some historic battles

1129
00:49:04,289 --> 00:49:02,020
against the US government to help obtain

1130
00:49:07,470 --> 00:49:04,299
UFO documents he worked with all the

1131
00:49:11,099 --> 00:49:07,480
heavy hitters in the 70s and 80s valet

1132
00:49:12,690 --> 00:49:11,109
Hynek multiple TV appearances where he

1133
00:49:14,430 --> 00:49:12,700
sort of blew the lid off on a lot of

1134
00:49:16,740 --> 00:49:14,440
different governmental conspiracies and

1135
00:49:19,500 --> 00:49:16,750
notions and I really knew him and

1136
00:49:21,210 --> 00:49:19,510
connected with him from being a guest on

1137
00:49:24,329 --> 00:49:21,220
coast to coast in the 90s

1138
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,339
since then Peter has adopted a new

1139
00:49:30,809 --> 00:49:26,559
nickname he's no longer the UFO attorney

1140
00:49:34,109 --> 00:49:30,819
he is the vortex jumper and he believes

1141
00:49:36,990 --> 00:49:34,119
he stars his own game his own virtual

1142
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:37,000
reality show if you will and with the

1143
00:49:42,420 --> 00:49:38,890
help of things like synchronicities

1144
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:42,430
numerology and signs he he basically

1145
00:49:47,700 --> 00:49:45,010
interprets messages from the game and

1146
00:49:50,370 --> 00:49:47,710
figures out what his missions are and

1147
00:49:52,349 --> 00:49:50,380
what his next moves are and that that

1148
00:49:54,569 --> 00:49:52,359
essentially comes from this notion that

1149
00:49:58,859 --> 00:49:54,579
he believes we live in a simulated

1150
00:50:02,130 --> 00:49:58,869
reality right and that we are but sort

1151
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:02,140
of avatars and that we're all part of

1152
00:50:07,769 --> 00:50:04,930
this game kind of or that we are a part

1153
00:50:10,980 --> 00:50:07,779
of his game rather perhaps interesting

1154
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:10,990
so he got a message in I think it was

1155
00:50:14,910 --> 00:50:13,450
2011 maybe and his message was that he

1156
00:50:17,940 --> 00:50:14,920
had to take a certain amount of people

1157
00:50:22,620 --> 00:50:17,950
to the top of Bell Rock by a certain

1158
00:50:23,550 --> 00:50:22,630
date he had to take 1111 people tava

1159
00:50:27,300 --> 00:50:23,560
Bell Rock

1160
00:50:29,190 --> 00:50:27,310
December 21st 2012 at 11:11 p.m. what

1161
00:50:31,590 --> 00:50:29,200
was supposed to happen is upon

1162
00:50:35,100 --> 00:50:31,600
completing this task something like a

1163
00:50:37,290 --> 00:50:35,110
vortex or a mothership would appear at

1164
00:50:39,870 --> 00:50:37,300
the top of the mountain and the vortex

1165
00:50:44,610 --> 00:50:39,880
jumper was ready to make the leap into

1166
00:50:46,890 --> 00:50:44,620
this so Peter had everyone convinced he

1167
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:46,900
was going to jump off the mountain so on

1168
00:50:50,940 --> 00:50:49,930
on the night on that night at the top of

1169
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:50,950
the mountain he was flanked by

1170
00:50:56,970 --> 00:50:55,690
helicopters police Booker's right they

1171
00:51:00,060 --> 00:50:56,980
thought this man was going to jump on

1172
00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:00,070
that night Peter did not jump not off

1173
00:51:05,540 --> 00:51:02,590
into a vortex or craft or to his death

1174
00:51:08,910 --> 00:51:05,550
thankfully he climbed down dejected

1175
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:08,920
because he didn't bring up enough people

1176
00:51:14,220 --> 00:51:11,650
up to the top by the deadline and he

1177
00:51:16,140 --> 00:51:14,230
thought his story was over until of

1178
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:16,150
course new science symbols and messages

1179
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:18,400
were received and new goals were put

1180
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:20,650
into place so so Peter essentially like

1181
00:51:24,630 --> 00:51:22,330
generously leads climbers up to the top

1182
00:51:28,770 --> 00:51:24,640
of Bell Rock he has the top of the bell

1183
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:28,780
rock Club happens every day it's sort of

1184
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:31,570
like in the hope to spread positivity

1185
00:51:40,170 --> 00:51:34,810
curiousness inclusivity it's really

1186
00:51:44,010 --> 00:51:40,180
admire Bowl I'm not a member I didn't go

1187
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:44,020
up there Chelsea is okay so I realized I

1188
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:46,090
didn't want to make the 8-foot vertical

1189
00:51:49,710 --> 00:51:48,370
climb to the very top at the at the very

1190
00:51:52,980 --> 00:51:49,720
end of the mountain I mean it was just

1191
00:51:54,990 --> 00:51:52,990
like a sheer a sheer cliff face oh yeah

1192
00:51:57,750 --> 00:51:55,000
it was like oh yeah it's easy yeah get

1193
00:52:00,060 --> 00:51:57,760
up there he's like 89 like jump up there

1194
00:52:03,900 --> 00:52:00,070
say no no I'm gonna just enjoy this

1195
00:52:06,030 --> 00:52:03,910
Vista don't talk her mom and taking

1196
00:52:08,250 --> 00:52:06,040
taking the sights but yeah it's it's

1197
00:52:12,060 --> 00:52:08,260
it's interesting because she has a lot

1198
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:12,070
of ideas about what the nature of

1199
00:52:18,060 --> 00:52:15,760
reality is and what his sort of role is

1200
00:52:20,910 --> 00:52:18,070
in it but it all started from a place of

1201
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:20,920
anomalous light activity it all started

1202
00:52:25,890 --> 00:52:24,490
in two places potential UFO contact but

1203
00:52:29,070 --> 00:52:25,900
this is what this episode was really

1204
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:29,080
about is what what is in the stories we

1205
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:31,570
tell ourselves you know how do we order

1206
00:52:37,290 --> 00:52:36,250
the chaos around us and how do we order

1207
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:37,300
that chaos

1208
00:52:43,110 --> 00:52:40,330
when it changes direction so really it's

1209
00:52:46,050 --> 00:52:43,120
it's it's much more about what we think

1210
00:52:48,240 --> 00:52:46,060
about ourselves in our own reality than

1211
00:52:49,830 --> 00:52:48,250
anything else what I find really

1212
00:52:51,930 --> 00:52:49,840
interesting is like you said that this

1213
00:52:52,530 --> 00:52:51,940
started with just anomalous lights in

1214
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:52,540
the sky

1215
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:55,680
and now this guy has an entire like

1216
00:53:01,980 --> 00:52:57,970
story behind this

1217
00:53:05,570 --> 00:53:01,990
this almost simulated reality that he's

1218
00:53:08,820 --> 00:53:05,580
uncovered and that in some ways you know

1219
00:53:12,980 --> 00:53:08,830
all of us are looking for that vortex to

1220
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:12,990
jump into you know wait for that that I

1221
00:53:19,170 --> 00:53:16,960
guess that third act to our story that

1222
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:19,180
we've had our whole lives and whether or

1223
00:53:24,030 --> 00:53:21,370
not that vortex is real or not it's it's

1224
00:53:27,030 --> 00:53:24,040
the importance you give the journey that

1225
00:53:29,130 --> 00:53:27,040
you're taking and that you might be in

1226
00:53:31,590 --> 00:53:29,140
control of it or you might not and

1227
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:31,600
that's a struggle we all face everyday I

1228
00:53:36,810 --> 00:53:33,970
think is you know is everything all

1229
00:53:39,180 --> 00:53:36,820
mapped out already for us or is it just

1230
00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:39,190
a matter of getting to from point A to

1231
00:53:45,990 --> 00:53:42,850
point B that's already been destined or

1232
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:46,000
can we make our own you know we write

1233
00:53:50,820 --> 00:53:48,490
our own stories I I find that more

1234
00:53:53,610 --> 00:53:50,830
fascinating than just you know anomalous

1235
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:53,620
lights in the sky for sure yeah so it's

1236
00:53:58,020 --> 00:53:55,090
very interesting talking to you today

1237
00:54:00,000 --> 00:53:58,030
and following your journey and knowing

1238
00:54:02,430 --> 00:54:00,010
from where you started and you know

1239
00:54:05,360 --> 00:54:02,440
following your work for years now it's

1240
00:54:09,030 --> 00:54:05,370
interesting to hear that this other

1241
00:54:12,300 --> 00:54:09,040
activity is creeping into your work and

1242
00:54:14,460 --> 00:54:12,310
that you know somewhere in the skies is

1243
00:54:16,710 --> 00:54:14,470
essentially perhaps turning a little bit

1244
00:54:17,910 --> 00:54:16,720
but like some somewhere in the universe

1245
00:54:19,250 --> 00:54:17,920
something is going on we don't

1246
00:54:23,190 --> 00:54:19,260
understand in reality

1247
00:54:25,050 --> 00:54:23,200
dude that is I and do all the listeners

1248
00:54:27,960 --> 00:54:25,060
Jim and I have not discussed any of this

1249
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:27,970
before I've been toying with the idea of

1250
00:54:33,570 --> 00:54:31,570
doing my own obscura called somewhere on

1251
00:54:36,120 --> 00:54:33,580
the ground you know where these things

1252
00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:36,130
are happening all around us and I've

1253
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:38,890
been shut off to that for so long and I

1254
00:54:42,210 --> 00:54:40,330
also don't want people to think I'm like

1255
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:42,220
going off the deep end and that's

1256
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:44,650
someone the skies is no longer gonna be

1257
00:54:50,349 --> 00:54:47,690
about UFOs no that is my my life

1258
00:54:54,220 --> 00:54:50,359
blood it's these mysteries in our skies

1259
00:54:57,730 --> 00:54:54,230
but I cannot deny that there is so much

1260
00:55:02,530 --> 00:54:57,740
else going on that I think might might

1261
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:02,540
be connected to UFOs and you're right

1262
00:55:05,740 --> 00:55:02,930
man

1263
00:55:08,530 --> 00:55:05,750
I'm starting to really take that leap

1264
00:55:10,510 --> 00:55:08,540
and I don't see a problem with that

1265
00:55:12,670 --> 00:55:10,520
you know proved to me it's not real I'm

1266
00:55:14,410 --> 00:55:12,680
gonna go in believing all of it and then

1267
00:55:16,359 --> 00:55:14,420
prove to me it's not and then we'll take

1268
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:16,369
it from there I like that I like that

1269
00:55:24,130 --> 00:55:20,450
approach well another one that really

1270
00:55:26,710 --> 00:55:24,140
caught my attention was Jim you talked

1271
00:55:30,250 --> 00:55:26,720
to a sasquatch lately oh man what's

1272
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:30,260
going on there yeah I mean perhaps Brad

1273
00:55:38,079 --> 00:55:34,130
okay Who am I to judge I know that I

1274
00:55:40,780 --> 00:55:38,089
know that I was it if if sasquatches are

1275
00:55:44,319 --> 00:55:40,790
to exist I was essentially in their home

1276
00:55:46,450 --> 00:55:44,329
base okay what's interesting about going

1277
00:55:49,150 --> 00:55:46,460
into British Columbia deep into the

1278
00:55:52,569 --> 00:55:49,160
mountains British Columbia some of the

1279
00:55:55,750 --> 00:55:52,579
most dense wilderness you can encounter

1280
00:55:58,000 --> 00:55:55,760
anywhere is that it reveals all sorts of

1281
00:56:00,579 --> 00:55:58,010
things about whoever is in that's worst

1282
00:56:02,589 --> 00:56:00,589
in that place in that time and what I

1283
00:56:03,970 --> 00:56:02,599
mean by that is that as humans I think

1284
00:56:08,950 --> 00:56:03,980
it's very important for us to establish

1285
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:08,960
relationships whether that is with a

1286
00:56:14,530 --> 00:56:12,050
person whether that's with a pet whether

1287
00:56:17,650 --> 00:56:14,540
that's with an idea I think establishing

1288
00:56:20,380 --> 00:56:17,660
relationships two things ideas notions

1289
00:56:22,720 --> 00:56:20,390
is how we define ourselves right so

1290
00:56:25,839 --> 00:56:22,730
again as I headed into the forest with

1291
00:56:27,069 --> 00:56:25,849
this this great guy Brian Chelsea what

1292
00:56:31,059 --> 00:56:27,079
were Smith was with me again

1293
00:56:32,710 --> 00:56:31,069
we were drove deep into the forest it

1294
00:56:34,059 --> 00:56:32,720
was one of those things where when

1295
00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:34,069
someone's driving you deep into the

1296
00:56:38,470 --> 00:56:36,050
forest and you're going for as long as

1297
00:56:40,510 --> 00:56:38,480
you are you hope in the back ear head

1298
00:56:42,819 --> 00:56:40,520
that yes absolutely we're going to go

1299
00:56:49,150 --> 00:56:42,829
see like alleged Sasquatch stuff because

1300
00:56:50,859 --> 00:56:49,160
anything else is just too scary driving

1301
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:50,869
out of the woods what is going on here

1302
00:56:55,809 --> 00:56:52,970
in others in any other situation this is

1303
00:56:59,050 --> 00:56:55,819
not not okay but Brian Brian was a

1304
00:57:01,540 --> 00:56:59,060
generous and gracious hosts he took us

1305
00:57:03,190 --> 00:57:01,550
to essentially these spots work

1306
00:57:05,020 --> 00:57:03,200
believes that he communicates with the

1307
00:57:06,820 --> 00:57:05,030
Sasquatch family now I discovered

1308
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:06,830
there's a whole community online that

1309
00:57:10,330 --> 00:57:08,930
believe that Sasquatch people this is

1310
00:57:14,650 --> 00:57:10,340
what they call them Sasquatch people

1311
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:14,660
leave symbols and signs to communicate

1312
00:57:21,850 --> 00:57:18,770
with us to raise our consciousness to

1313
00:57:23,230 --> 00:57:21,860
convince us that something else is out

1314
00:57:24,850 --> 00:57:23,240
there that they're out there that

1315
00:57:28,450 --> 00:57:24,860
they're looking and they're watching and

1316
00:57:31,260 --> 00:57:28,460
they're listening to us and this started

1317
00:57:34,830 --> 00:57:31,270
the materialised with glyphs and so

1318
00:57:38,350 --> 00:57:34,840
Brian and in a growing community

1319
00:57:41,290 --> 00:57:38,360
especially online of like-minded folks

1320
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:41,300
are now deciphering this Sasquatch code

1321
00:57:49,930 --> 00:57:45,050
the Sasquatch code contains letter forms

1322
00:57:52,570 --> 00:57:49,940
and pictures and glyphs that essentially

1323
00:57:55,210 --> 00:57:52,580
communicate who these who these

1324
00:57:58,300 --> 00:57:55,220
Sasquatch people are what family they're

1325
00:58:00,220 --> 00:57:58,310
a part of are they welcoming you are

1326
00:58:02,530 --> 00:58:00,230
they saying you stay out of this area

1327
00:58:04,990 --> 00:58:02,540
are they giving you some sort of sign a

1328
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:05,000
message usually usually these are done

1329
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:07,970
seemingly it's their belief from their

1330
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:11,210
own names this glyph represents this

1331
00:58:16,750 --> 00:58:14,690
unique sasquatch now these names of

1332
00:58:20,950 --> 00:58:16,760
course are attributed by the humans that

1333
00:58:23,020 --> 00:58:20,960
find these unique symbols we get to make

1334
00:58:25,870 --> 00:58:23,030
up the language of what they're trying

1335
00:58:28,450 --> 00:58:25,880
to interpret right but the consistency

1336
00:58:31,630 --> 00:58:28,460
in which essentially these ghosts are

1337
00:58:34,690 --> 00:58:31,640
found in various parts of the country

1338
00:58:36,580 --> 00:58:34,700
and world this signified different you

1339
00:58:40,810 --> 00:58:36,590
know sort of sasquatch people families

1340
00:58:43,170 --> 00:58:40,820
or tribes is is kind of is interesting

1341
00:58:45,580 --> 00:58:43,180
and the face value for sure Sasquatch

1342
00:58:48,370 --> 00:58:45,590
this this was a personal story for me

1343
00:58:50,560 --> 00:58:48,380
Sasquatch I think was one of the game

1344
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:50,570
changers for me when I was a kid right

1345
00:58:54,940 --> 00:58:53,210
I think watching old episodes of in

1346
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:54,950
search of and learning about the

1347
00:59:00,190 --> 00:58:57,170
patterson-gimlin tape living in the

1348
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:00,200
North West my entire life you can't go

1349
00:59:05,860 --> 00:59:02,450
anywhere without Sasquatch being

1350
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:05,870
presence in the pop-culture fabric of

1351
00:59:11,530 --> 00:59:09,530
this area in region right so it's

1352
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:11,540
important moniker it's an important

1353
00:59:15,460 --> 00:59:13,610
character that symbolizes the strange to

1354
00:59:18,910 --> 00:59:15,470
me sort of

1355
00:59:21,910 --> 00:59:18,920
no different than a mascot of sorts now

1356
00:59:26,910 --> 00:59:21,920
what's interesting to me is is I don't I

1357
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:26,920
don't stand on any sort of diametric

1358
00:59:32,110 --> 00:59:29,210
positioning in terms of what I believe

1359
00:59:34,090 --> 00:59:32,120
about the Sasquatch its legitimacy as a

1360
00:59:35,380 --> 00:59:34,100
flesh-and-blood creature or something

1361
00:59:38,290 --> 00:59:35,390
more hyper dimensionals

1362
00:59:40,750 --> 00:59:38,300
who's to say in fact I think it's

1363
00:59:42,910 --> 00:59:40,760
absolutely nuts and I've said this while

1364
00:59:43,420 --> 00:59:42,920
going on Sasquatch shows I think it's

1365
00:59:46,150 --> 00:59:43,430
nuts

1366
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:46,160
when Sasquatch people get all hot and

1367
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,010
bothered and label things woowoo that

1368
00:59:53,670 --> 00:59:51,680
are outside their form of belief system

1369
01:00:00,100 --> 00:59:53,680
in terms of what sasquatches because

1370
01:00:02,590 --> 01:00:00,110
come on like show me man you don't know

1371
01:00:04,270 --> 01:00:02,600
how can you not know so what was

1372
01:00:07,330 --> 01:00:04,280
interesting about this community and

1373
01:00:09,670 --> 01:00:07,340
their beliefs in Sasquatch is that they

1374
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:09,680
seemed leasing ready to facilitate this

1375
01:00:13,660 --> 01:00:11,690
idea that they didn't quite know if he

1376
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:13,670
was a flesh-and-blood creature and or a

1377
01:00:20,140 --> 01:00:16,490
hyperdimensional creature or something

1378
01:00:22,060 --> 01:00:20,150
else a ghost-like creature right but

1379
01:00:25,780 --> 01:00:22,070
they were consistent in terms of their

1380
01:00:28,810 --> 01:00:25,790
belief that if shown the proper respect

1381
01:00:32,530 --> 01:00:28,820
in the forest you can affect communicate

1382
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:32,540
back with them and per Brian sometimes

1383
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:35,330
they will reveal themselves in a

1384
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:39,130
flesh-and-blood sort of appearance and

1385
01:00:45,340 --> 01:00:42,170
maybe even engage with you so Brian had

1386
01:00:47,530 --> 01:00:45,350
these stories of being welcomed into

1387
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:47,540
this epic family essentially and

1388
01:00:52,570 --> 01:00:49,610
communicating with one a daily basis

1389
01:00:54,850 --> 01:00:52,580
through signs and glyphs and making

1390
01:00:58,930 --> 01:00:54,860
himself present and available to them

1391
01:01:01,450 --> 01:00:58,940
and been gained with playing games like

1392
01:01:03,460 --> 01:01:01,460
throwing rocks back and forth with a

1393
01:01:07,030 --> 01:01:03,470
young Sasquatch child and things of this

1394
01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:07,040
nature so it gets into a very unique

1395
01:01:11,770 --> 01:01:09,770
perspective about how we feel our

1396
01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:11,780
relationship is with you nonetheless I

1397
01:01:17,020 --> 01:01:13,970
think and I think it's of one of

1398
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:17,030
belonging and I think that it's one of

1399
01:01:21,970 --> 01:01:20,690
positivity it's okay maybe these strange

1400
01:01:24,340 --> 01:01:21,980
things are happening but we don't

1401
01:01:26,530 --> 01:01:24,350
haven't necessarily be scared of them we

1402
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:26,540
can embrace them with warmth and

1403
01:01:31,380 --> 01:01:29,290
generosity just like we would a neighbor

1404
01:01:34,170 --> 01:01:31,390
someone on the street perhaps and maybe

1405
01:01:37,350 --> 01:01:34,180
if we approach this phenomenon that way

1406
01:01:40,470 --> 01:01:37,360
it will come back to us with a similar

1407
01:01:44,820 --> 01:01:40,480
energy and so I think that was really

1408
01:01:47,070 --> 01:01:44,830
profound and you know lists and I didn't

1409
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:47,080
have any personal experiences while I

1410
01:01:52,260 --> 01:01:50,530
was out there but Brian did say hey next

1411
01:01:57,060 --> 01:01:52,270
time you're out in the wilderness look

1412
01:01:59,460 --> 01:01:57,070
down see you can see any glyphs and on a

1413
01:02:03,390 --> 01:01:59,470
recent occasion I did see one of the ex

1414
01:02:06,330 --> 01:02:03,400
cliffs on the ground that represents now

1415
01:02:10,410 --> 01:02:06,340
here's the thing is that it is very easy

1416
01:02:16,740 --> 01:02:10,420
for anyone from the ages of two years

1417
01:02:20,370 --> 01:02:16,750
old to 150 if that were even a number to

1418
01:02:21,930 --> 01:02:20,380
organize sticks on the ground so I do

1419
01:02:25,650 --> 01:02:21,940
want to put that out there like these

1420
01:02:28,950 --> 01:02:25,660
are these are sticks branches rocks sort

1421
01:02:32,100 --> 01:02:28,960
of arranged in patterns and letter forms

1422
01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:32,110
etc so it's it's about the easiest thing

1423
01:02:38,910 --> 01:02:35,920
you can do to fake to facilitate so

1424
01:02:40,920 --> 01:02:38,920
who's to say but if it's important and

1425
01:02:44,310 --> 01:02:40,930
it's positive to these people they also

1426
01:02:46,530 --> 01:02:44,320
who cares yeah you know that that's a

1427
01:02:47,670 --> 01:02:46,540
really good point Jim whenever you know

1428
01:02:49,800 --> 01:02:47,680
there's been a lot of talk of

1429
01:02:52,140 --> 01:02:49,810
synchronicity lately probably because of

1430
01:02:55,110 --> 01:02:52,150
the the attention that Heller is getting

1431
01:02:56,880 --> 01:02:55,120
out there in in the world but um this

1432
01:02:58,860 --> 01:02:56,890
idea that synchronicities are very

1433
01:03:00,990 --> 01:02:58,870
powerful and impactful to the person

1434
01:03:02,940 --> 01:03:01,000
having it from an outside perspective a

1435
01:03:05,070 --> 01:03:02,950
lot of people scoff at it and say it's

1436
01:03:06,750 --> 01:03:05,080
just a coincidence it's just like

1437
01:03:09,150 --> 01:03:06,760
whatever like you're making something

1438
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:09,160
out of nothing and that's exactly the

1439
01:03:14,340 --> 01:03:11,650
point you are making something out of

1440
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:14,350
nothing but that something means

1441
01:03:18,090 --> 01:03:16,330
something to you and is now gonna put

1442
01:03:20,760 --> 01:03:18,100
you on a journey that you are never

1443
01:03:22,950 --> 01:03:20,770
expecting and has made you more alert

1444
01:03:24,930 --> 01:03:22,960
and aware than probably ever before in

1445
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:24,940
your life and that's what I love about

1446
01:03:29,280 --> 01:03:27,490
the idea of this of this you know just

1447
01:03:31,170 --> 01:03:29,290
twigs and sticks on the ground that

1448
01:03:33,180 --> 01:03:31,180
maybe just fell there the wind blew him

1449
01:03:35,490 --> 01:03:33,190
in a certain direction they they stacked

1450
01:03:37,110 --> 01:03:35,500
on one another or someone kicked the

1451
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:37,120
rock right in the middle of it I don't

1452
01:03:40,500 --> 01:03:39,130
know whatever but you're going to see

1453
01:03:42,540 --> 01:03:40,510
that completely different from the

1454
01:03:43,050 --> 01:03:42,550
person next to you or someone's going to

1455
01:03:45,090 --> 01:03:43,060
walk

1456
01:03:47,940 --> 01:03:45,100
over in never think twice about it and

1457
01:03:51,180 --> 01:03:47,950
that's the beauty of all of this is if

1458
01:03:53,910 --> 01:03:51,190
if someone notices it when it was left

1459
01:03:56,610 --> 01:03:53,920
there by some interdimensional being or

1460
01:03:58,890 --> 01:03:56,620
in energy of some sort if you happen to

1461
01:04:01,290 --> 01:03:58,900
catch that you're now connected to that

1462
01:04:03,780 --> 01:04:01,300
thing for probably the rest of your life

1463
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:03,790
if you choose to and that's what's so

1464
01:04:08,460 --> 01:04:06,730
cool about all this man yeah and it was

1465
01:04:09,870 --> 01:04:08,470
fascinating to me that I thought I was

1466
01:04:12,930 --> 01:04:09,880
gonna get a lot of for that episode

1467
01:04:14,580 --> 01:04:12,940
from more hardline researchers then I

1468
01:04:16,860 --> 01:04:14,590
discovered I don't think hard line

1469
01:04:21,780 --> 01:04:16,870
researchers pay any attention to what I

1470
01:04:23,460 --> 01:04:21,790
do or care you know because when I'm

1471
01:04:25,860 --> 01:04:23,470
when I'm looking at these stories and

1472
01:04:28,530 --> 01:04:25,870
I'm looking at these experiences I'm not

1473
01:04:30,750 --> 01:04:28,540
looking for a truth I'm looking for a

1474
01:04:32,850 --> 01:04:30,760
truth in what they believe they're

1475
01:04:35,070 --> 01:04:32,860
experiencing but I'm not looking to

1476
01:04:36,450 --> 01:04:35,080
decode anything I'm not looking to

1477
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:36,460
figure out or get to the bottom of

1478
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:37,330
anything really

1479
01:04:43,410 --> 01:04:39,850
except for the story itself and I think

1480
01:04:45,900 --> 01:04:43,420
what else can you do it like with any of

1481
01:04:49,110 --> 01:04:45,910
this phenomenon it's it's so anecdotal

1482
01:04:51,750 --> 01:04:49,120
it's so personal you know this that

1483
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:51,760
sometimes it's a fool's errand I think

1484
01:04:59,160 --> 01:04:56,410
and what you can look at it and at least

1485
01:05:02,370 --> 01:04:59,170
how I look at this this phenomenon is

1486
01:05:04,290 --> 01:05:02,380
that it's important to essentially look

1487
01:05:05,550 --> 01:05:04,300
at it with a glass half full you know

1488
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:05,560
there's an opportunity to look at things

1489
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:06,970
in that way I mean a lot of people ask

1490
01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:09,010
me do you what what do you want from

1491
01:05:13,830 --> 01:05:11,890
your your work your UFO work do you want

1492
01:05:15,750 --> 01:05:13,840
to learn the truth of what UFOs are and

1493
01:05:18,330 --> 01:05:15,760
I always tell them no I'm never gonna

1494
01:05:20,610 --> 01:05:18,340
know that I've accepted that accepted

1495
01:05:22,800 --> 01:05:20,620
that a long time ago actually I'm never

1496
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:22,810
gonna know what UFOs represent they

1497
01:05:26,310 --> 01:05:24,250
probably don't represent the same thing

1498
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:26,320
but they represent something different

1499
01:05:30,690 --> 01:05:28,210
to every person who has experienced them

1500
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:30,700
and that's what I found my new journey

1501
01:05:37,230 --> 01:05:33,970
is in all of this is just like you how

1502
01:05:39,180 --> 01:05:37,240
does it impact the people that seem to

1503
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:39,190
be intertwined with it and what does

1504
01:05:43,470 --> 01:05:41,290
that mean moving forward for them when

1505
01:05:46,350 --> 01:05:43,480
they're their entire life and journey

1506
01:05:48,030 --> 01:05:46,360
has been shifted and you know that it's

1507
01:05:50,990 --> 01:05:48,040
it's the importance you give it and the

1508
01:05:53,460 --> 01:05:51,000
purpose you give it and kind of the last

1509
01:05:56,970 --> 01:05:53,470
the last one I want to cover with you

1510
01:06:01,140 --> 01:05:56,980
here is the idea of a real life

1511
01:06:03,060 --> 01:06:01,150
vampire no yes for me you know I laughed

1512
01:06:05,430 --> 01:06:03,070
when I first heard about this episode

1513
01:06:08,330 --> 01:06:05,440
when you were down in New Orleans right

1514
01:06:10,680 --> 01:06:08,340
yeah it but then when I actually

1515
01:06:12,540 --> 01:06:10,690
listened to it and learned that you were

1516
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:12,550
going to be covering the more personal

1517
01:06:18,300 --> 01:06:14,890
side of this with obscura as well you

1518
01:06:19,710 --> 01:06:18,310
start to understand and relate in ways

1519
01:06:22,710 --> 01:06:19,720
to these people you thought you may

1520
01:06:25,170 --> 01:06:22,720
never relate to in so many different

1521
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:25,180
ways so what happened here man with this

1522
01:06:32,220 --> 01:06:28,690
this real life vampire and what you had

1523
01:06:34,109 --> 01:06:32,230
to do in preparation for this one well

1524
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:34,119
in preparation I was really interesting

1525
01:06:39,599 --> 01:06:37,570
because I went to new oral I went to New

1526
01:06:42,030 --> 01:06:39,609
Orleans in what was essentially like a

1527
01:06:44,370 --> 01:06:42,040
two and a half week maybe a three week

1528
01:06:46,170 --> 01:06:44,380
you from that trip where I was I was I

1529
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:46,180
was hopping all over the place I was

1530
01:06:50,849 --> 01:06:48,490
recording a lot of episodes doing a lot

1531
01:06:52,859 --> 01:06:50,859
of investigation at that time and by the

1532
01:06:55,260 --> 01:06:52,869
time I got to New Orleans I was burnout

1533
01:06:57,900 --> 01:06:55,270
man I was tired I didn't know where I

1534
01:06:59,550 --> 01:06:57,910
was it was doing that thing where for

1535
01:07:01,620 --> 01:06:59,560
any of you that travel a lot where you

1536
01:07:03,000 --> 01:07:01,630
wake up and you're I have no idea where

1537
01:07:04,859 --> 01:07:03,010
in that right now I don't look at my

1538
01:07:07,740 --> 01:07:04,869
phone I got what what's the last thing I

1539
01:07:09,900 --> 01:07:07,750
posted on Twitter I don't know that's

1540
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:09,910
how I felt and so what was interesting

1541
01:07:14,790 --> 01:07:12,010
is that I was walking into a situation a

1542
01:07:17,550 --> 01:07:14,800
place I had never been before dealing

1543
01:07:20,460 --> 01:07:17,560
with a phenomenon and energies if this

1544
01:07:24,510 --> 01:07:20,470
exists that I've never experienced or

1545
01:07:28,410 --> 01:07:24,520
dealt with before and this is not only a

1546
01:07:30,420 --> 01:07:28,420
voodoo energy but a vampiric energy I

1547
01:07:33,210 --> 01:07:30,430
was feeling a little exposed

1548
01:07:35,849 --> 01:07:33,220
needless to say so as I got into the

1549
01:07:39,030 --> 01:07:35,859
French Quarter where I was doing my

1550
01:07:40,830 --> 01:07:39,040
feature with Balthazar I checked into my

1551
01:07:44,580 --> 01:07:40,840
hotel room in the first place I went was

1552
01:07:47,490 --> 01:07:44,590
a witchcraft shop because I knew they

1553
01:07:51,900 --> 01:07:47,500
would have some sort of protective

1554
01:07:55,040 --> 01:07:51,910
elements that listen I don't know like

1555
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:55,050
if these things really work or not but

1556
01:08:00,180 --> 01:07:57,490
if I'm in a space where I'm worried

1557
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:00,190
about these energies then might as well

1558
01:08:06,750 --> 01:08:02,410
play along and protect myself in that

1559
01:08:09,900 --> 01:08:06,760
plane anyway right so so I went there I

1560
01:08:10,650 --> 01:08:09,910
picked up a few objects it was it was

1561
01:08:12,660 --> 01:08:10,660
funny

1562
01:08:16,140 --> 01:08:12,670
I was asking for some guidance and

1563
01:08:17,550 --> 01:08:16,150
health about hey the specific in the

1564
01:08:18,330 --> 01:08:17,560
shop Keith you know these specific

1565
01:08:20,580 --> 01:08:18,340
energies

1566
01:08:23,490 --> 01:08:20,590
how should I properly kind of protect

1567
01:08:26,190 --> 01:08:23,500
myself I'm coming in here and it was the

1568
01:08:28,430 --> 01:08:26,200
classic you know kind of look around and

1569
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:28,440
see what resonates with you which was

1570
01:08:35,970 --> 01:08:32,770
kind of helpful but at the same time not

1571
01:08:37,740 --> 01:08:35,980
so much so I I did I went around found a

1572
01:08:40,530 --> 01:08:37,750
few objects that resonated with me and

1573
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:40,540
then I was able to walk into my day a

1574
01:08:48,540 --> 01:08:43,810
much clearer headed and then ruin that

1575
01:08:52,040 --> 01:08:48,550
with a inordinate amount of beignets but

1576
01:08:54,390 --> 01:08:52,050
you know New Orleans is New Orleans if

1577
01:08:55,590 --> 01:08:54,400
the people listening right now in the

1578
01:08:59,430 --> 01:08:55,600
listener if you haven't been there you

1579
01:09:01,770 --> 01:08:59,440
need to go yeah it's haunted okay there

1580
01:09:04,830 --> 01:09:01,780
are more haunted places in New Orleans

1581
01:09:07,890 --> 01:09:04,840
than not in fact there's a law with

1582
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:07,900
their real estate that you you have to

1583
01:09:14,130 --> 01:09:09,970
you have to let people know if a place

1584
01:09:16,770 --> 01:09:14,140
is haunted and in fact Realtors will

1585
01:09:19,500 --> 01:09:16,780
post up signs if a place is not haunted

1586
01:09:21,510 --> 01:09:19,510
because everything else is haunted so

1587
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:21,520
you'll walk by and we'll go for lease

1588
01:09:28,470 --> 01:09:26,610
for sale and it'll say not haunted

1589
01:09:33,450 --> 01:09:28,480
whoever thought that that would be a

1590
01:09:37,140 --> 01:09:33,460
selling point so but between its history

1591
01:09:41,310 --> 01:09:37,150
and politics the weather the Mississippi

1592
01:09:45,660 --> 01:09:41,320
it it holds a lot of stories and it

1593
01:09:48,990 --> 01:09:45,670
holds its history very close to the

1594
01:09:50,460 --> 01:09:49,000
current day and so you're in it when you

1595
01:09:52,550 --> 01:09:50,470
go there you're in it I want to talk

1596
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:52,560
with that I'm going there to meet

1597
01:09:59,250 --> 01:09:55,810
Balthazar who is a voodoo priest he's an

1598
01:10:00,930 --> 01:09:59,260
ordained minister he's an elder of a

1599
01:10:04,470 --> 01:10:00,940
thing called the mystic house of echoes

1600
01:10:08,220 --> 01:10:04,480
and he's a vampire and what I discover

1601
01:10:12,390 --> 01:10:08,230
is that meeting him learning about

1602
01:10:15,980 --> 01:10:12,400
vampire houses he is just one of many

1603
01:10:18,420 --> 01:10:15,990
many many vampires that walk around

1604
01:10:20,820 --> 01:10:18,430
every single day and live in every

1605
01:10:24,540 --> 01:10:20,830
single city every single town these

1606
01:10:27,689 --> 01:10:24,550
communities are thriving and the vampire

1607
01:10:30,180 --> 01:10:27,699
are vampires are real now

1608
01:10:33,689 --> 01:10:30,190
vampires to my knowledge like don't turn

1609
01:10:36,540 --> 01:10:33,699
into bats they can eat garlic right I

1610
01:10:38,399 --> 01:10:36,550
was in an elevator with a giant mirror

1611
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:38,409
with Balthazar and I saw his reflection

1612
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:40,570
which was very reassuring as he was

1613
01:10:45,629 --> 01:10:43,210
coming up to my hotel room to chat so

1614
01:10:49,620 --> 01:10:45,639
some of those more you know sort of

1615
01:10:53,089 --> 01:10:49,630
strange occult preconceptions through

1616
01:10:55,350 --> 01:10:53,099
through fiction about what vampires are

1617
01:10:59,430 --> 01:10:55,360
what some of their traits are I don't

1618
01:11:01,649 --> 01:10:59,440
believe is real but a person who who

1619
01:11:04,740 --> 01:11:01,659
believes that they have a physiological

1620
01:11:09,330 --> 01:11:04,750
response to the consumption of blood and

1621
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:09,340
then consumes human blood on a routine

1622
01:11:17,700 --> 01:11:13,090
basis is absolutely a real thing so

1623
01:11:20,669 --> 01:11:17,710
vampires are real and vampires are your

1624
01:11:23,359 --> 01:11:20,679
next-door neighbor and maybe you don't

1625
01:11:27,209 --> 01:11:23,369
know what so if that's not like sort of

1626
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:27,219
affirming enough and shaking in a way

1627
01:11:34,700 --> 01:11:30,210
when you learn that there are

1628
01:11:37,859 --> 01:11:34,710
respectable community oriented very

1629
01:11:39,750 --> 01:11:37,869
transparent houses of vampires like

1630
01:11:42,030 --> 01:11:39,760
Balthazar like we learned in the episode

1631
01:11:43,950 --> 01:11:42,040
with him does a lot of community service

1632
01:11:45,629 --> 01:11:43,960
they feed the homeless they don't feed

1633
01:11:47,459 --> 01:11:45,639
on the homeless they feed the homeless

1634
01:11:50,609 --> 01:11:47,469
thank you for clarifying they're very

1635
01:11:52,620 --> 01:11:50,619
engaged in civic activities you find out

1636
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:52,630
about that when you find out that that's

1637
01:11:57,870 --> 01:11:55,449
not always the case everywhere the

1638
01:11:59,850 --> 01:11:57,880
vampires are real people and just like

1639
01:12:02,399 --> 01:11:59,860
every real people and every real group

1640
01:12:06,060 --> 01:12:02,409
of people there are good ones and bad

1641
01:12:09,569 --> 01:12:06,070
ones so don't get it out of your head

1642
01:12:12,240 --> 01:12:09,579
that there is a sense of alluring danger

1643
01:12:14,100 --> 01:12:12,250
to all of this and that our ideas and

1644
01:12:16,410 --> 01:12:14,110
misconceptions about vampires and

1645
01:12:19,709 --> 01:12:16,420
nefariousness that's associated with

1646
01:12:23,339 --> 01:12:19,719
that imagery is not all completely 100%

1647
01:12:24,569 --> 01:12:23,349
off base because there are individuals

1648
01:12:28,350 --> 01:12:24,579
in the community that I think that

1649
01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:28,360
probably do pose dangers to those that

1650
01:12:32,520 --> 01:12:30,250
are out there and that although the

1651
01:12:34,200 --> 01:12:32,530
episode when presented really painted

1652
01:12:36,359 --> 01:12:34,210
this very optimistic and positive

1653
01:12:38,459 --> 01:12:36,369
picture about the vampire community

1654
01:12:40,070 --> 01:12:38,469
which I think you know listen is

1655
01:12:43,340 --> 01:12:40,080
there's probably more often than not

1656
01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:43,350
accurate I would suggest the people

1657
01:12:50,189 --> 01:12:46,449
don't just jump into a vampire house or

1658
01:12:54,959 --> 01:12:50,199
a house of vampires and expect the same

1659
01:13:00,030 --> 01:12:54,969
level of transparency of you know

1660
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:00,040
community involvement of warmness trend

1661
01:13:06,630 --> 01:13:03,449
on this stuff very lightly folks because

1662
01:13:11,160 --> 01:13:06,640
there are other energies afoot and if

1663
01:13:12,930 --> 01:13:11,170
you're not ready to interpret what's

1664
01:13:14,610 --> 01:13:12,940
negative one is positive if you're not

1665
01:13:17,400 --> 01:13:14,620
ready to I don't know

1666
01:13:19,560 --> 01:13:17,410
navigate those waters then you probably

1667
01:13:22,500 --> 01:13:19,570
should and so that's that's what I will

1668
01:13:24,570 --> 01:13:22,510
say and that is sort of what I felt and

1669
01:13:28,500 --> 01:13:24,580
I learned about vampire communities and

1670
01:13:31,680 --> 01:13:28,510
so yeah yeah Ryan vampires do everywhere

1671
01:13:33,620 --> 01:13:31,690
I met a really great one and he was an

1672
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:33,630
awesome guy but it goes without saying

1673
01:13:41,160 --> 01:13:37,440
in all things paranormal and a cult-like

1674
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:41,170
be ready for some weirdness and make

1675
01:13:46,709 --> 01:13:43,690
sure you're ready for it right right and

1676
01:13:48,060 --> 01:13:46,719
you seem to be I mean III remember

1677
01:13:49,890 --> 01:13:48,070
hearing your voice throughout the

1678
01:13:52,110 --> 01:13:49,900
episode the journey you were taking and

1679
01:13:55,140 --> 01:13:52,120
you could hear in your voice

1680
01:13:58,580 --> 01:13:55,150
sort of the reservation but also trying

1681
01:14:01,020 --> 01:13:58,590
to embrace being in the moment too and

1682
01:14:03,750 --> 01:14:01,030
it was it was a fascinating journey

1683
01:14:05,970 --> 01:14:03,760
because again you put yourself in Jim

1684
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:05,980
Berry shoes of what would I do if I was

1685
01:14:10,229 --> 01:14:08,290
in a house of vampires and yeah I'm told

1686
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:10,239
they do good things they're good people

1687
01:14:16,620 --> 01:14:12,930
but then it comes down to actually like

1688
01:14:19,439 --> 01:14:16,630
consuming the blood and and that whole

1689
01:14:22,260 --> 01:14:19,449
side of it all - so what was that like

1690
01:14:25,890 --> 01:14:22,270
like experiencing that like in real time

1691
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:25,900
well it was interesting because a lot of

1692
01:14:31,170 --> 01:14:28,570
folks asked me because then the

1693
01:14:36,390 --> 01:14:31,180
immersive nature nature of the show if I

1694
01:14:40,320 --> 01:14:36,400
were myself to be a donor or even better

1695
01:14:42,450 --> 01:14:40,330
like if I were to try to suck blood

1696
01:14:44,070 --> 01:14:42,460
myself or something right yeah and if

1697
01:14:48,419 --> 01:14:44,080
these were options of these were on the

1698
01:14:51,300 --> 01:14:48,429
table which they weren't ever and and my

1699
01:14:52,290 --> 01:14:51,310
answer would have been no you know and I

1700
01:14:54,899 --> 01:14:52,300
and I think it's

1701
01:14:59,729 --> 01:14:54,909
because there's a there's a line that

1702
01:15:03,419 --> 01:14:59,739
delineates from even being a participant

1703
01:15:06,299 --> 01:15:03,429
observer there's still a line of respect

1704
01:15:08,549 --> 01:15:06,309
that one has to draw so just like I

1705
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:08,559
wouldn't be comfortable engaging in

1706
01:15:14,879 --> 01:15:12,010
certain religious activities or rituals

1707
01:15:17,669 --> 01:15:14,889
or things of this nature that I'm not

1708
01:15:21,359 --> 01:15:17,679
that I don't carry the proper level of

1709
01:15:24,030 --> 01:15:21,369
respects into that's how I felt about

1710
01:15:25,950 --> 01:15:24,040
this process as well because even though

1711
01:15:29,520 --> 01:15:25,960
a lot of vampires don't approach this

1712
01:15:32,160 --> 01:15:29,530
with ritual that it's not a religion for

1713
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:32,170
most vampires a vampirism is not really

1714
01:15:38,580 --> 01:15:35,170
a religion it's more than an act right

1715
01:15:41,129 --> 01:15:38,590
or a persona JH it's a physiological

1716
01:15:44,669 --> 01:15:41,139
ailment right it's a position you're put

1717
01:15:47,549 --> 01:15:44,679
into I still didn't want to infringe on

1718
01:15:50,250 --> 01:15:47,559
any of the respect that I assume is

1719
01:15:52,799 --> 01:15:50,260
associated by that community it into

1720
01:15:54,419 --> 01:15:52,809
that act right because because you

1721
01:15:56,640 --> 01:15:54,429
really you you really you really

1722
01:15:59,250 --> 01:15:56,650
immersed yourself at that point if I'm

1723
01:16:01,080 --> 01:15:59,260
there sucking someone's blood now here's

1724
01:16:02,430 --> 01:16:01,090
here's one of the things is that there's

1725
01:16:04,979 --> 01:16:02,440
a lot of different techniques for the

1726
01:16:06,540 --> 01:16:04,989
consumption of blood sometimes folks

1727
01:16:09,629 --> 01:16:06,550
will use different medical grade

1728
01:16:11,939 --> 01:16:09,639
equipment right there's like a slope

1729
01:16:15,780 --> 01:16:11,949
what is it phlebotomy sort of technique

1730
01:16:19,379 --> 01:16:15,790
that can be accompanied but more often

1731
01:16:22,700 --> 01:16:19,389
than not I think that straight mouth to

1732
01:16:25,319 --> 01:16:22,710
flesh is actually the preferred method

1733
01:16:28,140 --> 01:16:25,329
it certainly is for Balthasar so

1734
01:16:31,470 --> 01:16:28,150
Balthazar he'll he'll make small

1735
01:16:35,129 --> 01:16:31,480
incisions on usually the person's back

1736
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:35,139
and he'll suck it up they'll just drop

1737
01:16:43,649 --> 01:16:40,210
their mouth right so although I I did

1738
01:16:46,109 --> 01:16:43,659
not see I assumed I would have had the

1739
01:16:49,530 --> 01:16:46,119
option to see that myself as I wanted to

1740
01:16:51,390 --> 01:16:49,540
I had seen a tape of it so I know of

1741
01:16:55,620 --> 01:16:51,400
this legitimacy and I know he's the real

1742
01:16:58,950 --> 01:16:55,630
deal and it's not hard to find these

1743
01:17:00,899 --> 01:16:58,960
communities and a lot of published

1744
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:00,909
material about how these communities

1745
01:17:05,880 --> 01:17:03,250
operate what's what's interesting about

1746
01:17:08,070 --> 01:17:05,890
it is that just like any communities

1747
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:08,080
it's it's very divisive amongst

1748
01:17:12,780 --> 01:17:10,810
themselves right I mean there's posers

1749
01:17:15,120 --> 01:17:12,790
in the vampire community you know

1750
01:17:17,550 --> 01:17:15,130
alleged posers you know these are the

1751
01:17:20,010 --> 01:17:17,560
the dress-up artists that like to attend

1752
01:17:22,050 --> 01:17:20,020
balls them and any kind of are in it for

1753
01:17:24,960 --> 01:17:22,060
the image the imagery of it all you know

1754
01:17:26,700 --> 01:17:24,970
it's sexy its mysterious its dark and so

1755
01:17:29,550 --> 01:17:26,710
you see a lot of that too and you see a

1756
01:17:31,950 --> 01:17:29,560
lot of that Orleans specifically but you

1757
01:17:34,740 --> 01:17:31,960
know I encountered that I encountered

1758
01:17:36,630 --> 01:17:34,750
that energy and those type of folks on

1759
01:17:38,630 --> 01:17:36,640
the Queen Mary in Los Angeles you know

1760
01:17:41,580 --> 01:17:38,640
I've seen that stuff in New York City so

1761
01:17:44,100 --> 01:17:41,590
these these folks really are everywhere

1762
01:17:47,750 --> 01:17:44,110
and what I think it really highlights is

1763
01:17:52,500 --> 01:17:47,760
that we have a very unique set of

1764
01:17:55,680 --> 01:17:52,510
circumstances to navigate through as

1765
01:17:58,380 --> 01:17:55,690
folks investigating and featuring the

1766
01:18:01,170 --> 01:17:58,390
stories the paranormal because it's the

1767
01:18:03,420 --> 01:18:01,180
human element right we-we've you and I

1768
01:18:06,060 --> 01:18:03,430
have talked about this extensively you

1769
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:06,070
can't separate the human from these

1770
01:18:10,260 --> 01:18:08,650
experiences you can't separate where

1771
01:18:13,340 --> 01:18:10,270
they're coming from what their

1772
01:18:15,810 --> 01:18:13,350
perspective is from these stories and

1773
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:15,820
you know when folks decide to

1774
01:18:20,220 --> 01:18:18,010
internalize that and become a part of

1775
01:18:22,380 --> 01:18:20,230
that story become a part of that mythos

1776
01:18:23,900 --> 01:18:22,390
it's very interesting to me and I think

1777
01:18:26,460 --> 01:18:23,910
that's what we see with vampires

1778
01:18:29,190 --> 01:18:26,470
absolutely and what we see like you said

1779
01:18:33,390 --> 01:18:29,200
in every one of these communities is

1780
01:18:35,630 --> 01:18:33,400
this want to belong with something

1781
01:18:38,610 --> 01:18:35,640
anything we're all searching for

1782
01:18:41,010 --> 01:18:38,620
communities to be a part of in this life

1783
01:18:43,410 --> 01:18:41,020
and when you can find something that

1784
01:18:46,350 --> 01:18:43,420
resonates with you makes you feel

1785
01:18:49,740 --> 01:18:46,360
important gives you meaning I am all for

1786
01:18:51,480 --> 01:18:49,750
it men even if it is divisive or toxic

1787
01:18:53,310 --> 01:18:51,490
at times you're gonna find those

1788
01:18:56,040 --> 01:18:53,320
individuals to connect with within those

1789
01:18:58,020 --> 01:18:56,050
communities who are going to build you

1790
01:18:59,910 --> 01:18:58,030
up make you a better person

1791
01:19:01,980 --> 01:18:59,920
make you think outside of what your

1792
01:19:04,530 --> 01:19:01,990
condition to think everyday and to

1793
01:19:06,210 --> 01:19:04,540
really really start that journey and

1794
01:19:07,290 --> 01:19:06,220
that's why I respect someone like you

1795
01:19:09,510 --> 01:19:07,300
and the Newkirk's

1796
01:19:12,270 --> 01:19:09,520
and you know these boots on the ground

1797
01:19:14,670 --> 01:19:12,280
UFO researchers and investigators who

1798
01:19:17,850 --> 01:19:14,680
are out there exploring the world

1799
01:19:19,500 --> 01:19:17,860
exploring these mysteries that plague us

1800
01:19:22,530 --> 01:19:19,510
every single day of our

1801
01:19:25,470 --> 01:19:22,540
and it continued to do that and bring it

1802
01:19:26,520 --> 01:19:25,480
to us so I mean it's it's fascinating

1803
01:19:28,890 --> 01:19:26,530
man I I didn't know what to expect

1804
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:28,900
coming into this interview with you

1805
01:19:34,310 --> 01:19:31,810
which I never do and you always you

1806
01:19:37,740 --> 01:19:34,320
always hit me with just these deep

1807
01:19:39,900 --> 01:19:37,750
things that make me not only think but

1808
01:19:43,229 --> 01:19:39,910
feel and I know that's what I felt with

1809
01:19:45,660 --> 01:19:43,239
this first episode of obscura and I am

1810
01:19:47,820 --> 01:19:45,670
going to be craving this every week man

1811
01:19:51,420 --> 01:19:47,830
the atmosphere you bring to this the

1812
01:19:53,130 --> 01:19:51,430
people you you invite us into the worlds

1813
01:19:56,490 --> 01:19:53,140
with it's unique

1814
01:19:58,830 --> 01:19:56,500
it's personal and I can't wait to see

1815
01:20:01,860 --> 01:19:58,840
where it goes next really well thank you

1816
01:20:04,229 --> 01:20:01,870
so much Ryan and it is really great to

1817
01:20:04,860 --> 01:20:04,239
be able to share this journey with you

1818
01:20:08,010 --> 01:20:04,870
my friend

1819
01:20:09,660 --> 01:20:08,020
and to keep touching base and to keep

1820
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:09,670
collaborating on things is really great

1821
01:20:14,550 --> 01:20:12,489
I will mention that some of our first

1822
01:20:16,200 --> 01:20:14,560
conversations in the original euphemus

1823
01:20:19,229 --> 01:20:16,210
series which is is not really available

1824
01:20:22,470 --> 01:20:19,239
anywhere we are like like yourself we're

1825
01:20:25,140 --> 01:20:22,480
starting a patreon and with patreon we

1826
01:20:28,440 --> 01:20:25,150
will be uploading essentially every

1827
01:20:30,690 --> 01:20:28,450
archival episode weekly up there and by

1828
01:20:33,000 --> 01:20:30,700
the time folks hear this our second

1829
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:33,010
release will be urine eyes first

1830
01:20:38,190 --> 01:20:35,650
conversation though want to check that

1831
01:20:41,100 --> 01:20:38,200
out to see what we were doing and what

1832
01:20:43,890 --> 01:20:41,110
was that like 2015 or 2016 how do be

1833
01:20:46,229 --> 01:20:43,900
2015 may be I think it was 2015 yep so

1834
01:20:48,090 --> 01:20:46,239
to see where we were with that to see

1835
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:48,100
what you are working on what I was

1836
01:20:51,570 --> 01:20:50,290
working on and us trying it just a

1837
01:20:54,090 --> 01:20:51,580
couple of kids trying to figure this

1838
01:20:55,890 --> 01:20:54,100
stuff out years ago you'll be able to

1839
01:20:57,750 --> 01:20:55,900
access that with the patreon and so

1840
01:21:00,420 --> 01:20:57,760
you've met is a completely independent

1841
01:21:02,970 --> 01:21:00,430
production now we parted ways from

1842
01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:02,980
Schuyler media we had a deal to work on

1843
01:21:07,800 --> 01:21:05,290
one season completed that deal inside

1844
01:21:09,870 --> 01:21:07,810
would go our own ways so now you from

1845
01:21:11,760 --> 01:21:09,880
that is a position where I'm leaning on

1846
01:21:14,070 --> 01:21:11,770
my co collaborators I'm leaving on my

1847
01:21:17,700 --> 01:21:14,080
partners I'm leaving on the audience to

1848
01:21:19,050 --> 01:21:17,710
help facilitate this project forward so

1849
01:21:21,960 --> 01:21:19,060
we can continue telling these stories

1850
01:21:24,180 --> 01:21:21,970
and unique and creative ways possum and

1851
01:21:26,850 --> 01:21:24,190
back in the hands of the individual who

1852
01:21:28,740 --> 01:21:26,860
birthed it all I should say which i

1853
01:21:32,070 --> 01:21:28,750
think is just gonna make it so much more

1854
01:21:32,820 --> 01:21:32,080
rich and personal for both you and your

1855
01:21:35,690 --> 01:21:32,830
listeners

1856
01:21:39,480 --> 01:21:35,700
so where can we find the patreon and the

1857
01:21:41,310 --> 01:21:39,490
main UFO met and you from at obscura so

1858
01:21:43,830 --> 01:21:41,320
you can find the patreon patreon.com

1859
01:21:47,310 --> 01:21:43,840
slash you from it that will be launched

1860
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:47,320
on this upcoming Friday by the time

1861
01:21:52,290 --> 01:21:48,970
people listen to this I'm not sure if we

1862
01:21:54,750 --> 01:21:52,300
be up or not but probably and you can

1863
01:21:57,060 --> 01:21:54,760
follow me on social Twitter and

1864
01:21:59,460 --> 01:21:57,070
Instagram at youth Amit and me

1865
01:22:01,050 --> 01:21:59,470
personally which is honestly where most

1866
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:01,060
of the activity is I would just follow

1867
01:22:06,570 --> 01:22:03,130
me personally not even the show it's at

1868
01:22:07,110 --> 01:22:06,580
Jim Perry at it's Jim Perry that's a

1869
01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:07,120
mouthful

1870
01:22:13,530 --> 01:22:10,330
yet it's Jim Perry is what it is cool

1871
01:22:16,340 --> 01:22:13,540
you took it out of me today anymore same

1872
01:22:19,290 --> 01:22:16,350
here man this has been an amazing

1873
01:22:22,200 --> 01:22:19,300
conversation tonight and by the time

1874
01:22:23,730 --> 01:22:22,210
this airs I will be in flight back to

1875
01:22:25,770 --> 01:22:23,740
New York City for a whole new journey

1876
01:22:28,740 --> 01:22:25,780
myself so I couldn't think of a better

1877
01:22:30,990 --> 01:22:28,750
way to wrap up my time with someone the

1878
01:22:32,730 --> 01:22:31,000
skies here in Los Angeles then with the

1879
01:22:35,280 --> 01:22:32,740
individual who makes me think and feel

1880
01:22:37,830 --> 01:22:35,290
more than anyone so Jim thank you again

1881
01:22:41,100 --> 01:22:37,840
for coming on the final Los Angeles

1882
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:41,110
episode of separateness guys thank you

1883
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:45,250
so much Ryan appreciate it that's it for

1884
01:22:49,740 --> 01:22:47,170
this week's episode again you can catch

1885
01:22:52,380 --> 01:22:49,750
you ferment obscura right now on the you

1886
01:22:54,510 --> 01:22:52,390
ferment feet on all podcast app lets you

1887
01:22:56,100 --> 01:22:54,520
can catch somewhere in the skies the

1888
01:22:58,770 --> 01:22:56,110
same way while you're at it please

1889
01:23:00,900 --> 01:22:58,780
subscribe rate and review where you can

1890
01:23:03,120 --> 01:23:00,910
and help us grow in visibility to

1891
01:23:05,610 --> 01:23:03,130
listeners out there we've got some cool

1892
01:23:08,160 --> 01:23:05,620
new merch in the store jacques of la

1893
01:23:10,740 --> 01:23:08,170
fans will find a brand new design right

1894
01:23:13,590 --> 01:23:10,750
now along with a super cool 80s vapor

1895
01:23:16,560 --> 01:23:13,600
wave ufologist shirt this and much more

1896
01:23:19,770 --> 01:23:16,570
at the official TV public store just

1897
01:23:20,970 --> 01:23:19,780
visit te e public comm and search for

1898
01:23:23,550 --> 01:23:20,980
the somewhere in this guy's store

1899
01:23:24,930 --> 01:23:23,560
subscribe to our growing youtube channel

1900
01:23:27,420 --> 01:23:24,940
which is about to explode

1901
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:27,430
into overdrive once things settle down

1902
01:23:32,010 --> 01:23:29,770
in new york just look for the Ryan

1903
01:23:33,840 --> 01:23:32,020
spread check we're on twitter at

1904
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:33,850
somewhere skies and instagram at

1905
01:23:40,350 --> 01:23:36,370
somewhere skies pod thank you as always

1906
01:23:42,420 --> 01:23:40,360
to e1 hellofresh kg are a radio and most

1907
01:23:45,180 --> 01:23:42,430
importantly to you for listening I'll

1908
01:23:46,540 --> 01:23:45,190
see you here next week and remember keep

1909
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:46,550
your feet on the ground

1910
01:23:56,680 --> 01:23:48,770
but never stop searching several

1911
01:24:29,460 --> 01:24:27,820
[Music]

1912
01:24:31,530 --> 01:24:29,470
[Applause]

1913
01:24:33,970 --> 01:24:31,540
[Music]

1914
01:24:35,740 --> 01:24:33,980
somewhere in the skies is produced by

1915
01:24:37,930 --> 01:24:35,750
Third Kind productions in association

1916
01:24:39,460 --> 01:24:37,940
with the entertainment one podcast

1917
01:24:41,800 --> 01:24:39,470
network to learn more visit

1918
01:24:43,930 --> 01:24:41,810
Entertainment one podcast calm in

1919
01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:43,940
reality UFOs are seen by people from all

1920
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:45,650
walks of life every day all around the

1921
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:46,850
world they've also been officially

1922
01:24:49,660 --> 01:24:48,530
investigated by the US government and by

1923
01:24:51,550 --> 01:24:49,670
governments of several other countries

1924
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:51,560
too that's just a small element of what

1925
01:24:54,700 --> 01:24:53,090
makes the strange UFO topic so

1926
01:24:56,500 --> 01:24:54,710
incredibly fascinating and fun to

1927
01:24:58,870 --> 01:24:56,510
explore that's what we do on the UFO

1928
01:25:00,430 --> 01:24:58,880
podcast unknown I'm Jason McClellan and

1929
01:25:02,230 --> 01:25:00,440
I invite you to explore the weird and

1930
01:25:03,550 --> 01:25:02,240
wonderful world of UFOs with me and my

1931
01:25:05,470 --> 01:25:03,560
friends and colleagues on unknown

1932
01:25:06,970 --> 01:25:05,480
unknown is available on Apple podcast

1933
01:25:10,180 --> 01:25:06,980
Google Play stitcher I Heart Radio